Numpy and Common Lisp?

[Robert Goldman]

Thank you, you are too kind.

My thinking was that there was a large investment in numpy that cannot 
be exploited by lispers.

It has been objected that it would be better to have a library that is 
more lispy. I have made my argument for why that would be difficult to 
do. I should also add that numpy isn't particularly "pythony," either: 
the linear algebra computations are done by external libraries with 
highly efficient low-level implementations.  Furthermore, a lot of 
python is lisp-inspired, so I think it not unreasonable that a 
python-suited numpy could also be quite lisp-suitable.

Of course, if people want to do a capable linear algebra library for and 
in CL, I have no objections!  Either as a community big project or 
hobbyist hack. Let a thousand flowers bloom!

My interest, though, is in *using* such a library, not building it 
(numerical analysis is not my thing), so I was looking for the most 
direct path to the most solid capability.

On 11 Apr 2023, at 20:18, Elliott Johnson wrote:

> Robert,I must say that I am a big fan of your work on asdf and in awe 
> of your professional and academic career.I agree with your assessment 
> that numpy and the entirety of NUMFocus would be well outside the 
> scope of the current CL community.In an effort to conserve the 
> momentum of this thread and channel the spirit of my time at Franz 
> Inc, I'd like to emphasize that a lot can be accomplished by a small 
> team with clear goals and roles.I hope that if a such project arises 
> that I can be of assistance.Best regards,ElliottSent from my T-Mobile 
> 5G Device
> -------- Original message --------From: Robert Goldman 
> <rpgoldman at sift.net> Date: 4/11/23  1:07 PM  (GMT-08:00) To: 
> Discussion list for Common Lisp professionals <pro at common-lisp.net> 
> Subject: Re: Numpy and Common Lisp? I don't mean to rain on the 
> parade, but the development and maintenance of numpy consumes a level 
> of resources that is simply beyond the capacity of the CL community to 
> muster.
> The NUMFocus project, a non-profit, supports this and other numerical 
> computation projects (most, but not exclusively python), drawing on 
> substantial amounts of corporate sponsorship.
> I urge you to cast your eyes on this NumFOCUS sponsors list before 
> thinking that our community could even begin to tackle this task:  
> https://numfocus.org/sponsors
> On 11 Apr 2023, at 7:14, Steven Nunez wrote:
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> There's also the Lisp-Stat ecosystem, if you don't already know about 
> it. Data-frame, array-operations and LLA (Lisp Linear Algebra) cover 
> much of numpy's functionality; at least enough to get significant work 
> done.
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> On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 07:45:50 PM GMT+8, Elliott Johnson 
> <elliott at elliottjohnson.net> wrote:
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> FYI -  there appears to be a library called numcl that was written to 
> cover numpy's functionality.
>
>    https://github.com/numcl/numcl
>
> I've yet to try it, but thought I'd pass along the link.
>
> Regards,
> Elliott Johnson
>
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Raymond Wiker <rwiker at gmail.com>
> Date: 4/11/23 3:53 AM (GMT-08:00)
> To: Discussion list for Common Lisp professionals 
> <pro at common-lisp.net>
> Subject: Re: Numpy and Common Lisp?
>
>
> There’s cl-ana, which may be a useful substitute in some cases… or 
> april, possibly.
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> If you specifically want numpy, it may be possible to have Common Lisp 
> talking to python.
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> On 11 Apr 2023, at 08:41, Marco Antoniotti 
> <marco.antoniotti at unimib.it> wrote:
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> Hi Michael
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> I am all for it.  But, as I said, I am an academic (and a cat).
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> Should we (as in "a bunch of common lispers", most of whom with day 
> jobs) want to do something like that, how would you want to proceed?  
> Note that I have been part of many past failures.
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> All the best
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> Marco
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> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 1:01 AM Michael Bentley 
> <michael at stray-labs.com> wrote:
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> IMHO, it'd be easier and effective to band up together and FIRST write 
> a proper API specification and THEN implement it in CL.
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> I agree.  Here’s the API specification for 
> NumPy: https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/index.html#reference
>
> Looks rather intimidating. Less intimidating though, than doing the 
> FFI dance, though.
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