Numpy and Common Lisp?

[Craig]

Hi All,

I would like to highlight another currently existing project moving towards
numpy/pandas in Common Lisp and at least two libraries specifically for
data frames.

https://github.com/Lisp-Stat/lisp-stat
https://github.com/sirherrbatka/vellum
https://github.com/40ants/teddy

Best,
Craig

On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 8:12 AM Marco Antoniotti <marco.antoniotti at unimib.it>
wrote:

> Dear Elliot, Robert, Daniel (just the last one writing) et al.
>
> First of all, let me apologize for being snarky in my previous comments.
> I am getting older.
>
> Of course, we cannot hope to muster anything like NUMFocus, that goes
> without saying.  But, as Daniel suggested, we have different needs in the
> community, w.r.t., mathematical and numerical issues: two outlooks could be
> the following.
>
> Some of us, Robert, for example if I am not wrong, want to use libraries
> that are already out there.  This has a long history in the community: the
> f2cl project has been instrumental in this respect, and the Matlisp project
> did bring many well known Fortran libraries into the fold.  The number of
> "math", "matrix", "statistical", "ML", libraries listed in CLiki is long.
>
> Some of us, myself for example, have, at this point, an... aesthetic
> approach to the matter (given my day job).  While I have no expectations
> about the outcome, I like to make proposals for portable and foundational
> specifications; hence my stance about "first specify, then code".  It is in
> this spirit that I followed up on my pamphlet "Why you cannot..."
> (doi:10.5281/zenodo.3759522) with an effort to provide a library
> implementing the "Language Independent Arithmetic" (LIA) standards (
> https://github.com/marcoxa/CDR-LIA-SPEC - preliminary code is at
> https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/cl-lia/cl-lia )
>
> I would welcome any help on this later effort.  The rest may follow...
>
> A note on numpy.  In general, my feeling is that most of it is already in
> the guts of Common Lisp.  Yet, it will be useful to check its API.  As it
> would be useful to study more recent APIs for math/numerical libraries,
> most notably, Julia.
>
> All the best
>
> Marco
>
> On Wed, Apr 12, 2023 at 3:22 AM Elliott Johnson <
> elliott at elliottjohnson.net> wrote:
>
>> Robert,
>>
>> I must say that I am a big fan of your work on asdf and in awe of your
>> professional and academic career.
>>
>> I agree with your assessment that numpy and the entirety of NUMFocus
>> would be well outside the scope of the current CL community.
>>
>> In an effort to conserve the momentum of this thread and channel the
>> spirit of my time at Franz Inc, I'd like to emphasize that a lot can be
>> accomplished by a small team with clear goals and roles.
>>
>> I hope that if a such project arises that I can be of assistance.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Elliott
>>
>>
>> Sent from my T-Mobile 5G Device
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Robert Goldman <rpgoldman at sift.net>
>> Date: 4/11/23 1:07 PM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: Discussion list for Common Lisp professionals <pro at common-lisp.net>
>> Subject: Re: Numpy and Common Lisp?
>>
>> I don't mean to rain on the parade, but the development and maintenance
>> of numpy consumes a level of resources that is simply beyond the capacity
>> of the CL community to muster.
>>
>> The NUMFocus project, a non-profit, supports this and other numerical
>> computation projects (most, but not exclusively python), drawing on
>> substantial amounts of corporate sponsorship.
>>
>> I urge you to cast your eyes on this NumFOCUS sponsors list before
>> thinking that our community could even begin to tackle this task:
>> https://numfocus.org/sponsors
>>
>> On 11 Apr 2023, at 7:14, Steven Nunez wrote:
>>
>> There's also the Lisp-Stat <https://lisp-stat.dev/> ecosystem, if you
>> don't already know about it. Data-frame, array-operations and LLA (Lisp
>> Linear Algebra) cover much of numpy's functionality; at least enough to get
>> significant work done.
>>
>> On Tuesday, April 11, 2023 at 07:45:50 PM GMT+8, Elliott Johnson <
>> elliott at elliottjohnson.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> FYI -  there appears to be a library called numcl that was written to
>> cover numpy's functionality.
>>
>>    https://github.com/numcl/numcl
>>
>> I've yet to try it, but thought I'd pass along the link.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Elliott Johnson
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Raymond Wiker <rwiker at gmail.com>
>> Date: 4/11/23 3:53 AM (GMT-08:00)
>> To: Discussion list for Common Lisp professionals <pro at common-lisp.net>
>> Subject: Re: Numpy and Common Lisp?
>>
>> There’s cl-ana, which may be a useful substitute in some cases… or april,
>> possibly.
>>
>> cliki.net
>>
>> cl-ana
>> <https://www.cliki.net/cl-ana>
>> cliki.net
>>
>> april
>> <https://www.cliki.net/april>
>>
>> If you specifically want numpy, it may be possible to have Common Lisp
>> talking to python.
>>
>> On 11 Apr 2023, at 08:41, Marco Antoniotti <marco.antoniotti at unimib.it>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Michael
>>
>> I am all for it.  But, as I said, I am an academic (and a cat).
>>
>> Should we (as in "a bunch of common lispers", most of whom with day jobs)
>> want to do something like that, how would you want to proceed?  Note that I
>> have been part of many past failures.
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Marco
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 11, 2023 at 1:01 AM Michael Bentley <michael at stray-labs.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> IMHO, it'd be easier and effective to band up together and FIRST write a
>> proper API specification and THEN implement it in CL.
>>
>>
>> I agree.  Here’s the API specification for NumPy:
>> https://numpy.org/doc/stable/reference/index.html#reference
>>
>> Looks rather intimidating. Less intimidating though, than doing the FFI
>> dance, though.
>>
>>
>>
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