[Bese-devel] Templating

[Marco Baringer]

Evrim ULU <evrim at core.gen.tr> writes:

> * First one is "do it inside the code" which results html generation
> inside any render() method of a component.  This requires developer to
> form up html pages.

when possible this, with a good css stylesheet, is the easiest option
(both for the developer and the designer).

> * Second method is simple use "TAL/TAGLIB" approach just like java. This
> seems it allows web designer(not a developer) to shape up html pages.
>
> My problem is about the web development methodology. Let us assume,
> we have a team of people who are encouraged to develop web
> applications.  The main problem here is I could never achieved my
> "dream-viewer/photoshop" addicted web designers to learn JSP/Struts
> (or TAL for ucw case) tags. Since they'r not programmers, they just
> know html and possibly some javascript.

if _all_ they know (and are willing to learn) is html+javascript then
there's absalutely no way they're going to help in making dynamic web
sites. period. 

> In the light of this knowledge, i'm looking for solutions about an
> applicable methodology. How do people here develop web apps in
> coordination with web designers? Is it right to expect web-designers to
> learn tags? Which method to use in order to form-up a good templating
> system with ucw/lisp? How to bring developer and designer together so
> that they can sum up their work? Is this method sufficient and agile?
> And finally, if there is a method, which metrics exists and how one can
> measure these metrics?

i've used three methodologies in the past:

1) produce a simple and ugly template first. let the designer mold
   that into whatever they need (using whateverl tools they need). the
   designer can basically ignore the tal tags and the ability to put
   dummy data directly into the tal template helps them keep things
   ordere.

2) produce a simple template with classes, attributes and ids placed
   so that the designer can create a good stylesheet (there's some
   back and forth between me and the desigenr as to what divs to put
   in and what to call them, but this isn't a big deal).

3) work with the same designer often enough so that she knows ucw+tal
   enough to make the whole issue moot :)

hth.
-- 
-Marco
Ring the bells that still can ring.
Forget the perfect offering.
There is a crack in everything.
That's how the light gets in.
	-Leonard Cohen