[Bese-devel] Templating

[Waldo Rubinstein]

Evrim,

I have asked myself the same questions numerous times. I also  
participate in IRC channels from other frameworks and have also  
concluded that you should develop your application to spit out "ugly  
HTML" and let the designers work with CSS to do what they do best. If  
they cannot work efficiently with CSS, then look for other designers.

This is most clearly seen in a recent thread from Squeak/SeaSide. I  
very much enjoyed reading it. Feel free to read it on:

http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside/2006-January/ 
subject.html under the subject "Rails and Seaside"

In particular, you may want to read:

http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside/2006-January/ 
006449.html
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside/2006-January/ 
006458.html
http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/seaside/2006-January/ 
006460.html

BTW, the images from the http://lists.squeakfoundation.org/pipermail/ 
seaside/2006-January/006449.html post are attached.

Enjoy,
Waldo

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On Jan 12, 2006, at 3:51 PM, Evrim ULU wrote:

> Hi,
>
> This is my very post to list :) First of all, thanx for this great web
> framework, i've quited java after several years.
>
> I won't ask a simple "How to" question, but a workflow question about
> web development. I've enough knowledge about templating and tried most
> of the java frameworks. (struts, xml, cocoon, jsf, seam etc.) I've  
> tried
> two methodologies suggessted by ucw about templating:
>
> * First one is "do it inside the code" which results html generation
> inside any render() method of a component.  This requires developer to
> form up html pages.
> * Second method is simple use "TAL/TAGLIB" approach just like java.  
> This
> seems it allows web designer(not a developer) to shape up html pages.
>
> My problem is about the web development methodology. Let us assume, we
> have a team of people who are encouraged to develop web applications.
> The main problem here is I could never achieved my
> "dream-viewer/photoshop" addicted web designers to learn JSP/Struts  
> (or
> TAL for ucw case) tags. Since they'r not programmers, they just know
> html and possibly some javascript.
>
> In the light of this knowledge, i'm looking for solutions about an
> applicable methodology. How do people here develop web apps in
> coordination with web designers? Is it right to expect web- 
> designers to
> learn tags? Which method to use in order to form-up a good templating
> system with ucw/lisp? How to bring developer and designer together so
> that they can sum up their work? Is this method sufficient and agile?
> And finally, if there is a method, which metrics exists and how one  
> can
> measure these metrics?
>
> I'm not expecting a concrete answer, rather I want to discuss how ucw
> attacks this kind of problems.
>
> Thnx.
> Evrim.
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