[slime-devel] Re: [Ilisp-devel] SLIME

[Bill Clementson]

Luke Gorrie <luke at bluetail.com> writes:

> Bill Clementson <bill_clementson at yahoo.com> writes:
> 
> > Even if the eventual goal is to replace all the
functionality that
> > is provided by ILM/ILISP, ILISP would provide more
"short-term"
> > benefits for the SLIME CL developer than ILM
would.
> 
> That would have been one way, but we went the
clean-room approach. We
> only use ILM to start Lisp and compile our server,
and *inferior-lisp*
> as a debugging fallback. We've covered all the major
features now,
> although there's plenty of hacking left to do to get
all the details
> right and support everyone's favourite add-ons.
> 
> Starting from scratch means more work/fun, but it
also gives us a
> fresh codebase. To an outsider, some of the code in
ILISP is slightly
> terrifying :-), as in any program with such a long

Actually, to an insider, some of the code in ILISP is
a bit terrifying too ;-)


> history. We also
> wanted to do most things differently and to have an
environment more
> like the elisp one, so it would only give us a
head-start in the
> short-term.
> 
> ELI really doesn't appeal to my hackstincts. From
the web I can't even
> tell who wrote it, 

Steve Haflich (of Franz) was the author of the very
first version of ELI back around 1987. Since then, a
number of different Franz hackers have contributed to
it. 

> and most questions on groups.google.com seem to go
> without definitive answers. 

I'm not sure which group you're referring to. As far
as I'm aware, there is no Franz/ELI mailing list on
groups.google.com. If you're referring to
comp.lang.lisp.franz, I'm not surprised as that
newsgroup is just about dead - most Franz-specific
issues seem to be either directed to c.l.l. or to the
allegro-cl mailing list, both of which are very active
and both of which you can generally get a quick reply
from.

> I downloaded my copy from Neil van Dyke's
> website, which says "Please do not pester Franz to
support this
> packaging, lest they regret GPL'ing."
> 
> It looks like Franz did the least necessary to be
allowed to link with
> Emacs under the GPL, and would be unlikely to let a
dozen random
> hackers into their CVS tree :-) so that is a
potential dead-end.

That is a bit unfair. I have personally worked with
both Steve Haflich and Kevin Layer on various ELI
enhancements and have worked with a number of other
Franz employees on other ACL issues. I have always
found the Franz people I've dealt with to be very
receptive to suggestions as well as terrific
programmers. I doubt that you would get better
responses to requests or suggestions for improvements
at many open source projects. 

I should also mention that I am not a licensed ACL
user either.

> So I think our approach is pretty reasonable. We'll
see how it
> goes. I'm even hoping we can tempt some of you fine
hackers to have a
> play around on the dark side ;-)

I already mentioned that I use MS Windows - doesn't
that qualify me as playing on the dark side already
;-)

> And of course my views do not necessarily reflect
those of the other
> SLIME hackers, 

Aha, now come all the caveats: don't remove the label,
not valid with other offers, use before expiration
date, etc, etc :-)

> but I hope this answers this thread's main
> question. Note however that this is almost entirely
after-the-fact
> rationalization. Really, it was just too addictive
to stop. ;-)

Sorta like having a pint, eh - you can't just have one
:-)

--
Bill Clementson


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