Fwd: [LispSea] presentation requests

[Jeff Wood]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jeff Wood <jeff.darklight at gmail.com>
Date: Jun 21, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: [LispSea] presentation requests
To: "Brandon J. Van Every" <bvanevery at gmail.com>


My response would be to look @ the game developer article on Naughty
Dog ( a game production company that was purchased by Sony ... if I'm
remembering correctly ) ... they used a LOT of lisp in their internal
stuff ... made for some great games ... made them good enough they got
bought ... and of course, then their technology was too much and got
killed by the parent company ...

Anyways, it's still very informative.

Here's what I found quickly on the topic:

http://www.answers.com/topic/naughty-dog
http://www.franz.com/success/customer_apps/animation_graphics/naughtydog.lhtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naughty_Dog
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20020710/white_01.htm

... I agree it's not something that everybody can play with right now
... but it does show that people are doing *something* with it ...
and are willing to invest in good ideas ...

--jw.


On 6/21/06, Brandon J. Van Every <bvanevery at gmail.com> wrote:
> theo nolastname wrote:
> > Shat are the up/down sides
> > to the various implementations?
>
> Was that a Freudian slip?  :-)
>
> I was quiet because I finally went to Yakima to gather signatures.  Back
> in Seattle for 1 day, hitting the road again tomorrow.  I've got a dog!
> Picked up a stray at the Yakima Walmart.  I may be going down to Oregon
> after this, so this could put my 3D demo plans behind.
>
> I'd like to see a presentation of SBCL running on Windows.
>
> I'd like to see system / shell scripting for the Windows user.  It is
> very common for Unix people to script this, script that, but culturally
> I have little sense of it as a Windows non-networked desktop user.  Are
> there things a scripting mentality could do for me at a systems level
> that I just am not thinking about?
>
> I'd like to see a semi-decent game using Lisp or Scheme somehow.  There
> are a small number of open source ones out there, but I was never
> excited enough about any of 'em as far as code reuse to really dig
> through them.  It would be amusing to put someone else up to a dog and
> pony show.  Myself, I'm concentrating on my own code right now, to the
> extent I have time.  It'll be awhile before my own dog and pony shows
> are ready.
>
> I'd like to see applications of Lisp in image processing, 3D graphics,
> and scientific visualization.
>
> I'd like to see someone demonstrate a robot.
>
> I've been intermittently interested in the Festival speech synthesis
> system.  http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/  I've seen almost
> no updating of their homepage over the past year though, which gave me
> little confidence in using their technology commercially for games.
> Festival uses a Scheme command interpreter.
>
> I'd like to see an Artificial Life demo.
>
> >
> > 3. Information about the different dialects of lisp.
> > Advantages of scheme vs. common lisp vs. emacs lisp
> > vs. arc (whenever it comes out) vs.
> > what-ever-else-is-out-there.  Right now, I am leaning
> > somewhat towards common lisp as the first lisp that I
> > seriously want to start playing around with.  I really
> > don't know anyone who does active lisp development,
> > though, so it would be nice to actually talk to
> > someone and find out some of the trade-offs
> > language-wise between the various lisps.
> >
>
> I certainly know a lot about this from a Windows game developer's
> standpoint.  I chose Chicken Scheme because (1) it's a Scheme-to-C
> compiler and I'm into performance, (2) it has an excellent C FFI and
> that's important to the performance oriented things I want to do, (3) it
> has some C++ capabilities although I'm not sure how far one can actually
> go with them, (4) every C FFI out there is different for every
> implementation, whether it's "Common" Lisp or not.  So there's no
> advantage to CL in this case.  You live or die by your implementation.
>
> > 4. performance analysis.  How fast is lisp compared to
> > xxx language?  How easy is it to embed/link c/assembly
> > functions to lisp code?  What are some techniques for
> > making lisp run faster?  A short tutorial on some of
> > the more popular profilers avaliable might be good as
> > well.
> >
>
> The Shootout statistics are that every single natively compiled language
> out there is in the same rough order of magnitude of performance.  I
> don't just mean Lisp and Scheme, I mean others like OCaml, Clean,
> Haskell, Mercury, etc.  All the various scripted interpreters and byte
> compilers are in a different rough order of magnitude of performance,
> and it's significantly lower than the compiled languages.  If you want
> performance, get any natively compiled language and be happy.  After
> getting that baseline you should be picking in terms of support,
> usability, user community, price, open source if that's important to
> you, license, etc.  An advantage of an open source license is if you
> want to improve the performance, you can, if you're willing to do the work.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Brandon Van Every
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