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<DIV>Hi,</DIV>
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<DIV>As a casual user of CLIM I find the most frustrating problem is just
downloading all the proper pieces and placing them where they can be used.
If someone would take the time to create a pdf of step by step instructions on
where to go, what to download, and the required destinations it would be most
helpful. I know some things like this exist but many seem out of date and
don’t really work that well.</DIV>
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<DIV>I currently use SBCL on a Fedora 12 machine.</DIV>
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<DIV>Regards</DIV>
<DIV>Bill Sauer</DIV>
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<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=marianomontone@gmail.com
href="mailto:marianomontone@gmail.com">Mariano Montone</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, July 07, 2012 5:57 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=csr21@cantab.net
href="mailto:csr21@cantab.net">Christophe Rhodes</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Cc:</B> <A title=mcclim-devel@common-lisp.net
href="mailto:mcclim-devel@common-lisp.net">mcclim-devel@common-lisp.net</A>
</DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [mcclim-devel] Why is CLIM dead</DIV></DIV></DIV>
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style="FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000; FONT-SIZE: small; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; TEXT-DECORATION: none">Thanks
Christophe<BR><BR>That CLIM needs some human power and is not deeply flawed is
good news to me. I can work on it and use it knowing that my work is not
completely meaningless from the start.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Mariano<BR><BR>
<DIV class=gmail_quote>On Sat, Jul 7, 2012 at 5:53 PM, Christophe Rhodes <SPAN
dir=ltr><<A href="mailto:csr21@cantab.net"
target=_blank>csr21@cantab.net</A>></SPAN> wrote:<BR>
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<DIV class=im>Mariano Montone <<A
href="mailto:marianomontone@gmail.com">marianomontone@gmail.com</A>>
writes:<BR><BR>> So I was wondering why CLIM is dead. It looks like it
doesn't have any<BR>> activity at all. And I think it is a pity, because
when I first looked at<BR>> Listener/Climacs/Debugger/Inspector stuff, I
thought it would be a very<BR>> nice replacement for SLIME, for instance.
I'm SLIME user, but I think<BR>> there's lot of room for improvements in
the Lisp tools area, and the CLIM<BR>> tools + usability improvements +
possibilities to extend the tools very<BR>> easily sounds very good to
me.<BR><BR></DIV>Well, one argument is that things don't start out
equal. Yes, the<BR>Listener, Climacs, Debugger and Inspector are pretty
good, but they have<BR>to compete with other tools out there, not only for
functionality but<BR>also for maintenance time. Put bluntly, CLIM is
sleeping (maybe not<BR>dead, because interesting ideas never die :) because
there was a lack of<BR>person power to keep it awake. I agree that
there's a lot of potential<BR>in the tools, but there's a lot of potential in
all sorts of things and<BR>only a limited amount of time to spend developing
that potential.<BR>
<DIV class=im><BR>> Does anyone know why CLIM is not used anymore? Does it
have any very bad<BR>> design decisions? I'm not really sure about output
recording/redisplay, etc<BR>> (I haven't seen theme elsewhere, as if that
could be automatically handled<BR>> in general). Don't know about
composability and layout yet (I'm still<BR>> struggling a bit with that
now). And I also see some bugs, like some<BR>> refreshing problems when
scrolling, but bugs should be fixable.<BR><BR></DIV>It's not got terrible
design decisions: there are a couple of problems<BR>in some layers of the
stack, but nothing that couldn't be worked<BR>around. Output recording
and incremental redisplay are brave ideas,<BR>output recording somewhat more
salvageable than incremental redisplay,<BR>but they don't cost too much if you
don't use them. I don't think<BR>there's anything fundamentally wrong
with CLIM, or fundamentally better<BR>in other toolkits: it's just that the
pool of talent and energy to<BR>perform the pretty thankless task of making it
all work to the extent of<BR>its potential seems currently
unavailable.<BR><BR>What would it take? Money, or graduate students, I
think.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR><BR>Christophe<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR>
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