From temporal.pl at gmail.com Thu Apr 1 19:05:52 2010 From: temporal.pl at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Jacek_Z=C5=82ydach?=) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 21:05:52 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] LGDC2010: Cloze Call post-mortem. Message-ID: <4bb4ee94.0e0db80a.7125.1fb2@mx.google.com> Cloze-Call Postmortem 01.04.2010 Hi, This is a postmortem for my 2010LGDC entry, called "Cloze-Call". It derives its name from Clozure Common Lisp, in which it was written (more on that topic in Section 2). It is also a reference to a phrase, "close call", which means achieving something or escaping by a narrow margin, which corresponds to the ball maneuvering between planets. The game itself is a very simple "Gravity Pong". Your goal as a player is to shoot a ball into a hole. The ball must not collide with any of the planets that are on screen. To make things more fun, all planets attract the ball by means of gravity force. 1. What did I learn? Common Lisp, first of all. It is my first real project in Lisp. I started learning this language in summer 2009, but (thanks to university) I didn't have much time to write some real programs. Using ASDF - at least a little bit. That my old design concept for Game State Manager code (which I used for years in at least three other languages) has flaws to get ???? 2. What went right? Setting up the environment. I am working on 32-bit Windows 7. Even though I had to try out SBCL (which crashed on SDL examples), CLISP (too slow), ECL (also too slow) and SBCL on Ubuntu before ending up with well-working lispbuilsder-sdl and Clozure Common Lisp, I am suprised that the installation and setting up process wasn't that complicated and things actually worked first-time. I spent two days before the Challenge on setting up SDL and working environment. Graphic Design. This project confirmed what I actually learned recently - it is important to sacrifice some time and get decent-looking graphics / media for your product (be it a game, or anything else) and make it look nice. I'd be very unhappy if this game had circles and squares instead of those pictures, which I found on OpenGameArt.org. Fixed-step physics. I am using and promoting fixed time step approach to simulation in computer games, and it's the first time I really saw how good it is. During first physics test I had a fixed initial velocity vector for the ball, and I could see how it always travels the same path and lands in the same place. The game. It isn't finished, but it is playable and has most of the game mechanics implemented. I had to cut down on features as I was running out of time, but I shipped. 3. What went wrong? Transparency in SDL - I made some little voodoo and made planets use alpha channel, but the same trick didn't worked for any other image. I'm still confused why it's not working, and this phenomena is responsible for ugly Victory/Defeat screens. Watching movies - I'd have at least few more hours to work on my game if I haven't found myself some stuff that I really, really wanted to watch. Bad naming conventions. I heard it's hard to give names to vector-math library functions. I done it wrong, and had to look for a bug for almost an hour. My vector math library that I wrote for this game had two kinds of functions - some were returning a new vector with the result of an operation, and some modified their arguments. In particular, I had (negative-vector) which returned a new vector representing inversed input parameter. The complimentary function was (negate-vector), which just negated its parameter. I used the latter instead of the former in physics code, and spent almost an hour trying to discover why graphics was flickering. 6 days instead of 7. If I were more careful and wrote 2010-04-01 23:59GMT+1 instead of 2010-04-01 00:00GMT+1, I'd have one more day to work. I found my mistake about a day after signing up and decided not to change my initial declaration. 4. What's lispy about my entry? It is in Lisp :). It is not that common to see a game in Lisp :). Few lambdas and high-order functions here and there. I think that my code is more like C++ with Lisp-syntax. But I guess, as for a first Lisp project, it's not that bad. 5. What interesting algorithms or designs did I use? My good, old Game State Manager abstraction that I use everywhere. It simplified managing different game screens. Apart from that, I guess everything else is typical stuff you'll find in any computer game. At first I wasn't sure if I want to take part in the Contest. I have lot of stuff to do at university (and other places as well), I don't know that much Common Lisp, ect. etd. But, I thought, it would be a good occasion to actually learn much Lisp in short time, and write another game. I decided to sacrifice some university lectures and now I'm happy I did it. I'd like to thank David O'Toole for inviting me to #lispgames and encouraging me to take part in the Challenge. And I'd like to thank all of you #lispgames guys for support and nice time wasted (I should have been coding, not chatting :P) on IRC :). Jacek Z?ydach, http://temporal.pr0.pl/devblog TRC - Bringing you tomorrow's soulutions yesterday. From elliottslaughter at gmail.com Fri Apr 2 05:43:30 2010 From: elliottslaughter at gmail.com (Elliott Slaughter) Date: Thu, 1 Apr 2010 22:43:30 -0700 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Thopter 0.2 Released Message-ID: Thopter 0.2 released: http://code.google.com/p/blackthorn-engine/wiki/Thopter. Thopter is a 2D scrolling shooter game in the style of Raptor: Call of the Shadows, with support for LAN multiplayer co-op mode. Version 0.2 includes bosses, an autofire button, and improved LAN support. Downloads for Windows and Mac OS X are available now, with Linux coming soon! Thopter is not associated with the current LGDC, but with the previous contest from last year. The game has been under development since December. Enjoy :-) -- Elliott Slaughter "Don't worry about what anybody else is going to do. The best way to predict the future is to invent it." - Alan Kay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ikojba at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 16:31:01 2010 From: ikojba at gmail.com (Joop Kiefte) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 18:31:01 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE Message-ID: Hello guys, At the moment I am gathering together all pieces of the Climacs editor to start an open source project to create a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE. Until I switched to Linux I have made some games with Game Maker, a fine but windows only piece of software that is too commercialized nowadays for me to like it as it is now, and I (and some others as well I think) have been looking for a good replacement on linux for quite some time. As most good programmers I am extremely lazy and don't like to do repetitive work if I can prevent it, and as such have skipped things like py-game. I have done a little bit of fiddling with clojure and as I see it now some gaming stuff is coming up for clojure as well, but I didn't feel like gaming is the perfect bet for clojure. Now I am programming for a small company in common lisp and doing that I feel like I need some open source project to keep in shape on common lisp on the side line. So I thought, let's make a game maker clone! I am not going to make things from scratch, it won't be useful to do and besides, if there is nothing to build upon, we won't even get started. So I thought this might be a perfect use for climacs. It might even be a revival of the climacs project if you like. Gamemacs is just a working name (and a bit more, as I will explain later), I mean to contribute to the several sub-projects and with normal add-ons as much as possible, to keep everything as modular as possible. To not keep things vague, and to have a good direction, this is a list of things I want to have for a nice game-editor (and in general to make of Climacs an emacs-killer instead of an emacs-clone), most of it taken from Game Maker: * Integration of something like Lispbuilder (most probably just Lispbuilder). - It has SDL - It has OpenGL - It has an .exe-creator/binary compiler * Integration of the .exe-creator/binary compiler in the editor itself * Publish versions of Climacs compiled that way to make further development easier - so for basic development of games you don't even need to install anything else than that compiled version of climacs - we can call this compiled package with extensions Gamemacs, and keep the source pure climacs, so it remains as modular as it can be * I would like to have a generic graphical editor for lisp-code on top of the textual editing mode. - and this to be extensible with cool graphical editors for example to create levels (I think I will need to make a mock-up of this idea to get it clear) * Create libraries for game-development that are included by default and work nicely with the graphical interface so you will be able to make simple games with mostly point and click and harder games with a great emacs-like editor :) I have all this quite detailed in my head, but after dumping it all here I want your input as well, so it will be great to work with. In the end my goal is to have fun creating games on linux and to be able to sketch and prototype and build games all in one place. (If you can develop everything for emacs in emacs without leaving it, why shouldn't you be able to create games without hassle?) First things I will do anyhow (but help is appreciated on all sides!): * Put all the dependencies of climacs on Git * Build climacs and fiddle with it to get accustomed to the inner workings * Same with lispbuilder etc. What do you think? Greetings, Joop Kiefte -- Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dto1138 at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 18:45:04 2010 From: dto1138 at gmail.com (David O'Toole) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 14:45:04 -0400 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Joop, This sounds like a good idea. Expanding the tools space is great. I am working on a project with a few similar goals but some big differences. My game engine and IDE were written originally in Emacs Lisp in late 2006, and then over the last few years I've gradually rewritten it in Common Lisp. In the process I built a set of CL user interface widgets that behave in roughly emacsy ways. So my IDE is now split into two portions: GNU Emacs for the lisp code editing and SLIME stuff, and a spreadsheet-like Common Lisp UI system for the map editor and such. If you are curious to see, my game engine is at http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html What are your thoughts on user interfaces? On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Joop Kiefte wrote: > Hello guys, > At the moment I am gathering together all pieces of the Climacs editor to > start an open source project to create?a modular, extensible, capable and > easy to use game-development IDE. Until I switched to Linux I have made some > games with Game Maker, a fine but windows only piece of software that is too > commercialized nowadays for me to like it as it is now, and I (and some > others as well I think) have been looking for a good replacement on linux > for quite some time. As most good programmers I am extremely lazy and don't > like to do repetitive work if I can prevent it, and as such have skipped > things like py-game. > I have done a little bit of fiddling with clojure and as I see it now some > gaming stuff is coming up for clojure as well, but I didn't feel like gaming > is the perfect bet for clojure. Now I am programming for a small company in > common lisp and doing that I feel like I need some open source project to > keep in shape on common lisp on the side line. So I thought, let's make a > game maker clone! > I am not going to make things from scratch, it won't be useful to do and > besides, if there is nothing to build upon, we won't even get started. So I > thought this might be a perfect use for climacs. It might even be a revival > of the climacs project if you like. Gamemacs is just a working name (and a > bit more, as I will explain later), I mean to contribute to the several > sub-projects and with normal add-ons as much as possible, to keep everything > as modular as possible. > To not keep things vague, and to have a good direction, this is a list of > things I want to have for a nice game-editor (and in general to make of > Climacs an emacs-killer instead of an emacs-clone), most of it taken from > Game Maker: > * Integration of something like Lispbuilder (most probably just > Lispbuilder). > ??- It has SDL > ??- It has OpenGL > ??- It has an .exe-creator/binary compiler > * Integration of the .exe-creator/binary compiler in the editor itself > * Publish versions of Climacs compiled that way to make further development > easier > ??- so for basic development of games you don't even need to install > anything else than that compiled version of climacs > ??- we can call this compiled package with extensions Gamemacs, and keep the > source pure climacs, so it remains as modular as it can be > * I would like to have a generic graphical editor for lisp-code on top of > the textual editing mode. > ??- and this to be extensible with cool graphical editors for example to > create levels (I think I will need to make a mock-up of this idea to get it > clear) > * Create libraries for game-development that are included by default and > work nicely with the graphical interface so you will be able to make simple > games with mostly point and click and harder games with a great emacs-like > editor :) > I have all this quite detailed in my head, but after dumping it all here I > want your input as well, so it will be great to work with. In the end my > goal is to have fun creating games on linux and to be able to sketch and > prototype and build games all in one place. (If you can develop everything > for emacs in emacs without leaving it, why shouldn't you be able to create > games without hassle?) > First things I will do anyhow (but help is appreciated on all sides!): > * Put all the dependencies of climacs on Git > * Build climacs and fiddle with it to get accustomed to the inner workings > * Same with lispbuilder etc. > What do you think? > Greetings, > Joop Kiefte > -- > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... > > - http://esperanto.net ?- http://esperanto-jongeren.nl > > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 > > _______________________________________________ > lisp-game-dev mailing list > lisp-game-dev at common-lisp.net > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lisp-game-dev > > From ikojba at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 19:06:06 2010 From: ikojba at gmail.com (Joop Kiefte) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:06:06 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I will try to make a mock-up now and send it here, please help me remember if I forget... =X. As the code of your UI-system is in common lisp, I guess it won't be too hard to make it an addition on Climacs and integrate it already :). Maybe you can give it a try and we can bake up some basic code already that way. I see you already use github, I will dump climacs and dependencies on github as well as soon as I got it running (I wanted to 'release' the ideas already so I'll have some people pushing and out there to help :) currently the clx is biting me... I will keep you up to date on my efforts, although it's pretty much a free time only project) and maybe create a superproject with climacs, dependencies, your project etc to get new developers up and running quickly (although it's pretty much vaporware now... but climacs is not so we have something to get starting anyway :)). So, on to the drawing! 2010/4/3 David O'Toole > Hi Joop, > > This sounds like a good idea. Expanding the tools space is great. > > I am working on a project with a few similar goals but some big > differences. My game engine and IDE were written originally in Emacs > Lisp in late 2006, and then over the last few years I've gradually > rewritten it in Common Lisp. In the process I built a set of CL user > interface widgets that behave in roughly emacsy ways. So my IDE is now > split into two portions: GNU Emacs for the lisp code editing and SLIME > stuff, and a spreadsheet-like Common Lisp UI system for the map editor > and such. > > If you are curious to see, my game engine is at > http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html > > What are your thoughts on user interfaces? > > On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Joop Kiefte wrote: > > Hello guys, > > At the moment I am gathering together all pieces of the Climacs editor to > > start an open source project to create a modular, extensible, capable and > > easy to use game-development IDE. Until I switched to Linux I have made > some > > games with Game Maker, a fine but windows only piece of software that is > too > > commercialized nowadays for me to like it as it is now, and I (and some > > others as well I think) have been looking for a good replacement on linux > > for quite some time. As most good programmers I am extremely lazy and > don't > > like to do repetitive work if I can prevent it, and as such have skipped > > things like py-game. > > I have done a little bit of fiddling with clojure and as I see it now > some > > gaming stuff is coming up for clojure as well, but I didn't feel like > gaming > > is the perfect bet for clojure. Now I am programming for a small company > in > > common lisp and doing that I feel like I need some open source project to > > keep in shape on common lisp on the side line. So I thought, let's make a > > game maker clone! > > I am not going to make things from scratch, it won't be useful to do and > > besides, if there is nothing to build upon, we won't even get started. So > I > > thought this might be a perfect use for climacs. It might even be a > revival > > of the climacs project if you like. Gamemacs is just a working name (and > a > > bit more, as I will explain later), I mean to contribute to the several > > sub-projects and with normal add-ons as much as possible, to keep > everything > > as modular as possible. > > To not keep things vague, and to have a good direction, this is a list of > > things I want to have for a nice game-editor (and in general to make of > > Climacs an emacs-killer instead of an emacs-clone), most of it taken from > > Game Maker: > > * Integration of something like Lispbuilder (most probably just > > Lispbuilder). > > - It has SDL > > - It has OpenGL > > - It has an .exe-creator/binary compiler > > * Integration of the .exe-creator/binary compiler in the editor itself > > * Publish versions of Climacs compiled that way to make further > development > > easier > > - so for basic development of games you don't even need to install > > anything else than that compiled version of climacs > > - we can call this compiled package with extensions Gamemacs, and keep > the > > source pure climacs, so it remains as modular as it can be > > * I would like to have a generic graphical editor for lisp-code on top of > > the textual editing mode. > > - and this to be extensible with cool graphical editors for example to > > create levels (I think I will need to make a mock-up of this idea to get > it > > clear) > > * Create libraries for game-development that are included by default and > > work nicely with the graphical interface so you will be able to make > simple > > games with mostly point and click and harder games with a great > emacs-like > > editor :) > > I have all this quite detailed in my head, but after dumping it all here > I > > want your input as well, so it will be great to work with. In the end my > > goal is to have fun creating games on linux and to be able to sketch and > > prototype and build games all in one place. (If you can develop > everything > > for emacs in emacs without leaving it, why shouldn't you be able to > create > > games without hassle?) > > First things I will do anyhow (but help is appreciated on all sides!): > > * Put all the dependencies of climacs on Git > > * Build climacs and fiddle with it to get accustomed to the inner > workings > > * Same with lispbuilder etc. > > What do you think? > > Greetings, > > Joop Kiefte > > -- > > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is > > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... > > > > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl > > > > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in > 2004 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > lisp-game-dev mailing list > > lisp-game-dev at common-lisp.net > > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lisp-game-dev > > > > > -- Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ikojba at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 19:22:38 2010 From: ikojba at gmail.com (Joop Kiefte) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:22:38 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have Climacs running now, now there's work to do :) It really was like they said on the pages about it, the hardest part is tracking down the dependencies. Next tasks: get an issuetracker up, get the repositories all on github and the mock-up. I will do the drawing now, can someone suggest me a good place to organize it all together, at least an issue tracker? A website we can do with HTML on Github of course, and I think an entry on cliki would be nice. 2010/4/3 Joop Kiefte > I will try to make a mock-up now and send it here, please help me remember > if I forget... =X. > > As the code of your UI-system is in common lisp, I guess it won't be too > hard to make it an addition on Climacs and integrate it already :). Maybe > you can give it a try and we can bake up some basic code already that way. I > see you already use github, I will dump climacs and dependencies on github > as well as soon as I got it running (I wanted to 'release' the ideas already > so I'll have some people pushing and out there to help :) currently the clx > is biting me... I will keep you up to date on my efforts, although it's > pretty much a free time only project) and maybe create a superproject with > climacs, dependencies, your project etc to get new developers up and running > quickly (although it's pretty much vaporware now... but climacs is not so we > have something to get starting anyway :)). > > So, on to the drawing! > > 2010/4/3 David O'Toole > > Hi Joop, >> >> This sounds like a good idea. Expanding the tools space is great. >> >> I am working on a project with a few similar goals but some big >> differences. My game engine and IDE were written originally in Emacs >> Lisp in late 2006, and then over the last few years I've gradually >> rewritten it in Common Lisp. In the process I built a set of CL user >> interface widgets that behave in roughly emacsy ways. So my IDE is now >> split into two portions: GNU Emacs for the lisp code editing and SLIME >> stuff, and a spreadsheet-like Common Lisp UI system for the map editor >> and such. >> >> If you are curious to see, my game engine is at >> http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html >> >> What are your thoughts on user interfaces? >> >> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Joop Kiefte wrote: >> > Hello guys, >> > At the moment I am gathering together all pieces of the Climacs editor >> to >> > start an open source project to create a modular, extensible, capable >> and >> > easy to use game-development IDE. Until I switched to Linux I have made >> some >> > games with Game Maker, a fine but windows only piece of software that is >> too >> > commercialized nowadays for me to like it as it is now, and I (and some >> > others as well I think) have been looking for a good replacement on >> linux >> > for quite some time. As most good programmers I am extremely lazy and >> don't >> > like to do repetitive work if I can prevent it, and as such have skipped >> > things like py-game. >> > I have done a little bit of fiddling with clojure and as I see it now >> some >> > gaming stuff is coming up for clojure as well, but I didn't feel like >> gaming >> > is the perfect bet for clojure. Now I am programming for a small company >> in >> > common lisp and doing that I feel like I need some open source project >> to >> > keep in shape on common lisp on the side line. So I thought, let's make >> a >> > game maker clone! >> > I am not going to make things from scratch, it won't be useful to do and >> > besides, if there is nothing to build upon, we won't even get started. >> So I >> > thought this might be a perfect use for climacs. It might even be a >> revival >> > of the climacs project if you like. Gamemacs is just a working name (and >> a >> > bit more, as I will explain later), I mean to contribute to the several >> > sub-projects and with normal add-ons as much as possible, to keep >> everything >> > as modular as possible. >> > To not keep things vague, and to have a good direction, this is a list >> of >> > things I want to have for a nice game-editor (and in general to make of >> > Climacs an emacs-killer instead of an emacs-clone), most of it taken >> from >> > Game Maker: >> > * Integration of something like Lispbuilder (most probably just >> > Lispbuilder). >> > - It has SDL >> > - It has OpenGL >> > - It has an .exe-creator/binary compiler >> > * Integration of the .exe-creator/binary compiler in the editor itself >> > * Publish versions of Climacs compiled that way to make further >> development >> > easier >> > - so for basic development of games you don't even need to install >> > anything else than that compiled version of climacs >> > - we can call this compiled package with extensions Gamemacs, and keep >> the >> > source pure climacs, so it remains as modular as it can be >> > * I would like to have a generic graphical editor for lisp-code on top >> of >> > the textual editing mode. >> > - and this to be extensible with cool graphical editors for example to >> > create levels (I think I will need to make a mock-up of this idea to get >> it >> > clear) >> > * Create libraries for game-development that are included by default and >> > work nicely with the graphical interface so you will be able to make >> simple >> > games with mostly point and click and harder games with a great >> emacs-like >> > editor :) >> > I have all this quite detailed in my head, but after dumping it all here >> I >> > want your input as well, so it will be great to work with. In the end my >> > goal is to have fun creating games on linux and to be able to sketch and >> > prototype and build games all in one place. (If you can develop >> everything >> > for emacs in emacs without leaving it, why shouldn't you be able to >> create >> > games without hassle?) >> > First things I will do anyhow (but help is appreciated on all sides!): >> > * Put all the dependencies of climacs on Git >> > * Build climacs and fiddle with it to get accustomed to the inner >> workings >> > * Same with lispbuilder etc. >> > What do you think? >> > Greetings, >> > Joop Kiefte >> > -- >> > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication >> is >> > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... >> > >> > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl >> > >> > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in >> 2004 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > lisp-game-dev mailing list >> > lisp-game-dev at common-lisp.net >> > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lisp-game-dev >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... > > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl > > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 > -- Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ikojba at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 19:23:46 2010 From: ikojba at gmail.com (Joop Kiefte) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 21:23:46 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have Climacs running now, now there's work to do :) It really was like they said on the pages about it, the hardest part is tracking down the dependencies. Next tasks: get an issuetracker up, get the repositories all on github and the mock-up. I will do the drawing now, can someone suggest me a good place to organize it all together, at least an issue tracker? A website we can do with HTML on Github of course, and I think an entry on cliki would be nice. 2010/4/3 Joop Kiefte > I will try to make a mock-up now and send it here, please help me remember > if I forget... =X. > > As the code of your UI-system is in common lisp, I guess it won't be too > hard to make it an addition on Climacs and integrate it already :). Maybe > you can give it a try and we can bake up some basic code already that way. I > see you already use github, I will dump climacs and dependencies on github > as well as soon as I got it running (I wanted to 'release' the ideas already > so I'll have some people pushing and out there to help :) currently the clx > is biting me... I will keep you up to date on my efforts, although it's > pretty much a free time only project) and maybe create a superproject with > climacs, dependencies, your project etc to get new developers up and running > quickly (although it's pretty much vaporware now... but climacs is not so we > have something to get starting anyway :)). > > So, on to the drawing! > > 2010/4/3 David O'Toole > > Hi Joop, >> >> This sounds like a good idea. Expanding the tools space is great. >> >> I am working on a project with a few similar goals but some big >> differences. My game engine and IDE were written originally in Emacs >> Lisp in late 2006, and then over the last few years I've gradually >> rewritten it in Common Lisp. In the process I built a set of CL user >> interface widgets that behave in roughly emacsy ways. So my IDE is now >> split into two portions: GNU Emacs for the lisp code editing and SLIME >> stuff, and a spreadsheet-like Common Lisp UI system for the map editor >> and such. >> >> If you are curious to see, my game engine is at >> http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html >> >> What are your thoughts on user interfaces? >> >> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Joop Kiefte wrote: >> > Hello guys, >> > At the moment I am gathering together all pieces of the Climacs editor >> to >> > start an open source project to create a modular, extensible, capable >> and >> > easy to use game-development IDE. Until I switched to Linux I have made >> some >> > games with Game Maker, a fine but windows only piece of software that is >> too >> > commercialized nowadays for me to like it as it is now, and I (and some >> > others as well I think) have been looking for a good replacement on >> linux >> > for quite some time. As most good programmers I am extremely lazy and >> don't >> > like to do repetitive work if I can prevent it, and as such have skipped >> > things like py-game. >> > I have done a little bit of fiddling with clojure and as I see it now >> some >> > gaming stuff is coming up for clojure as well, but I didn't feel like >> gaming >> > is the perfect bet for clojure. Now I am programming for a small company >> in >> > common lisp and doing that I feel like I need some open source project >> to >> > keep in shape on common lisp on the side line. So I thought, let's make >> a >> > game maker clone! >> > I am not going to make things from scratch, it won't be useful to do and >> > besides, if there is nothing to build upon, we won't even get started. >> So I >> > thought this might be a perfect use for climacs. It might even be a >> revival >> > of the climacs project if you like. Gamemacs is just a working name (and >> a >> > bit more, as I will explain later), I mean to contribute to the several >> > sub-projects and with normal add-ons as much as possible, to keep >> everything >> > as modular as possible. >> > To not keep things vague, and to have a good direction, this is a list >> of >> > things I want to have for a nice game-editor (and in general to make of >> > Climacs an emacs-killer instead of an emacs-clone), most of it taken >> from >> > Game Maker: >> > * Integration of something like Lispbuilder (most probably just >> > Lispbuilder). >> > - It has SDL >> > - It has OpenGL >> > - It has an .exe-creator/binary compiler >> > * Integration of the .exe-creator/binary compiler in the editor itself >> > * Publish versions of Climacs compiled that way to make further >> development >> > easier >> > - so for basic development of games you don't even need to install >> > anything else than that compiled version of climacs >> > - we can call this compiled package with extensions Gamemacs, and keep >> the >> > source pure climacs, so it remains as modular as it can be >> > * I would like to have a generic graphical editor for lisp-code on top >> of >> > the textual editing mode. >> > - and this to be extensible with cool graphical editors for example to >> > create levels (I think I will need to make a mock-up of this idea to get >> it >> > clear) >> > * Create libraries for game-development that are included by default and >> > work nicely with the graphical interface so you will be able to make >> simple >> > games with mostly point and click and harder games with a great >> emacs-like >> > editor :) >> > I have all this quite detailed in my head, but after dumping it all here >> I >> > want your input as well, so it will be great to work with. In the end my >> > goal is to have fun creating games on linux and to be able to sketch and >> > prototype and build games all in one place. (If you can develop >> everything >> > for emacs in emacs without leaving it, why shouldn't you be able to >> create >> > games without hassle?) >> > First things I will do anyhow (but help is appreciated on all sides!): >> > * Put all the dependencies of climacs on Git >> > * Build climacs and fiddle with it to get accustomed to the inner >> workings >> > * Same with lispbuilder etc. >> > What do you think? >> > Greetings, >> > Joop Kiefte >> > -- >> > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication >> is >> > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... >> > >> > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl >> > >> > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in >> 2004 >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > lisp-game-dev mailing list >> > lisp-game-dev at common-lisp.net >> > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lisp-game-dev >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... > > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl > > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 > -- Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ikojba at gmail.com Sat Apr 3 21:37:18 2010 From: ikojba at gmail.com (Joop Kiefte) Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2010 23:37:18 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Mockup ready. It looks more like a graph but it works to make my idea clear. The idea is to have 2 modes, code mode and graphical mode. In the graphical mode, Gamemacs reads your code and based on the defuns, defrooms, defsprites and whatever it creates a list for each in a nice attractive way, where you can click through to edit the form of that resource in a way that is good for that resource, for example a level editor. I think it would be perfect if you can just define new forms for example to edit images (sprites), tilemaps, levels, objects, functions, maybe even a tool to aid in creating macros, and all tiling up side by side in a sliding view. Please comment on this idea :) 2010/4/3 Joop Kiefte > I have Climacs running now, now there's work to do :) > > It really was like they said on the pages about it, the hardest part is > tracking down the dependencies. > > Next tasks: get an issuetracker up, get the repositories all on github and > the mock-up. > > I will do the drawing now, can someone suggest me a good place to organize > it all together, at least an issue tracker? > > A website we can do with HTML on Github of course, and I think an entry on > cliki would be nice. > > 2010/4/3 Joop Kiefte > > I will try to make a mock-up now and send it here, please help me remember >> if I forget... =X. >> >> As the code of your UI-system is in common lisp, I guess it won't be too >> hard to make it an addition on Climacs and integrate it already :). Maybe >> you can give it a try and we can bake up some basic code already that way. I >> see you already use github, I will dump climacs and dependencies on github >> as well as soon as I got it running (I wanted to 'release' the ideas already >> so I'll have some people pushing and out there to help :) currently the clx >> is biting me... I will keep you up to date on my efforts, although it's >> pretty much a free time only project) and maybe create a superproject with >> climacs, dependencies, your project etc to get new developers up and running >> quickly (although it's pretty much vaporware now... but climacs is not so we >> have something to get starting anyway :)). >> >> So, on to the drawing! >> >> 2010/4/3 David O'Toole >> >> Hi Joop, >>> >>> This sounds like a good idea. Expanding the tools space is great. >>> >>> I am working on a project with a few similar goals but some big >>> differences. My game engine and IDE were written originally in Emacs >>> Lisp in late 2006, and then over the last few years I've gradually >>> rewritten it in Common Lisp. In the process I built a set of CL user >>> interface widgets that behave in roughly emacsy ways. So my IDE is now >>> split into two portions: GNU Emacs for the lisp code editing and SLIME >>> stuff, and a spreadsheet-like Common Lisp UI system for the map editor >>> and such. >>> >>> If you are curious to see, my game engine is at >>> http://dto.github.com/notebook/xe2-reference.html >>> >>> What are your thoughts on user interfaces? >>> >>> On Sat, Apr 3, 2010 at 12:31 PM, Joop Kiefte wrote: >>> > Hello guys, >>> > At the moment I am gathering together all pieces of the Climacs editor >>> to >>> > start an open source project to create a modular, extensible, capable >>> and >>> > easy to use game-development IDE. Until I switched to Linux I have made >>> some >>> > games with Game Maker, a fine but windows only piece of software that >>> is too >>> > commercialized nowadays for me to like it as it is now, and I (and some >>> > others as well I think) have been looking for a good replacement on >>> linux >>> > for quite some time. As most good programmers I am extremely lazy and >>> don't >>> > like to do repetitive work if I can prevent it, and as such have >>> skipped >>> > things like py-game. >>> > I have done a little bit of fiddling with clojure and as I see it now >>> some >>> > gaming stuff is coming up for clojure as well, but I didn't feel like >>> gaming >>> > is the perfect bet for clojure. Now I am programming for a small >>> company in >>> > common lisp and doing that I feel like I need some open source project >>> to >>> > keep in shape on common lisp on the side line. So I thought, let's make >>> a >>> > game maker clone! >>> > I am not going to make things from scratch, it won't be useful to do >>> and >>> > besides, if there is nothing to build upon, we won't even get started. >>> So I >>> > thought this might be a perfect use for climacs. It might even be a >>> revival >>> > of the climacs project if you like. Gamemacs is just a working name >>> (and a >>> > bit more, as I will explain later), I mean to contribute to the several >>> > sub-projects and with normal add-ons as much as possible, to keep >>> everything >>> > as modular as possible. >>> > To not keep things vague, and to have a good direction, this is a list >>> of >>> > things I want to have for a nice game-editor (and in general to make of >>> > Climacs an emacs-killer instead of an emacs-clone), most of it taken >>> from >>> > Game Maker: >>> > * Integration of something like Lispbuilder (most probably just >>> > Lispbuilder). >>> > - It has SDL >>> > - It has OpenGL >>> > - It has an .exe-creator/binary compiler >>> > * Integration of the .exe-creator/binary compiler in the editor itself >>> > * Publish versions of Climacs compiled that way to make further >>> development >>> > easier >>> > - so for basic development of games you don't even need to install >>> > anything else than that compiled version of climacs >>> > - we can call this compiled package with extensions Gamemacs, and >>> keep the >>> > source pure climacs, so it remains as modular as it can be >>> > * I would like to have a generic graphical editor for lisp-code on top >>> of >>> > the textual editing mode. >>> > - and this to be extensible with cool graphical editors for example >>> to >>> > create levels (I think I will need to make a mock-up of this idea to >>> get it >>> > clear) >>> > * Create libraries for game-development that are included by default >>> and >>> > work nicely with the graphical interface so you will be able to make >>> simple >>> > games with mostly point and click and harder games with a great >>> emacs-like >>> > editor :) >>> > I have all this quite detailed in my head, but after dumping it all >>> here I >>> > want your input as well, so it will be great to work with. In the end >>> my >>> > goal is to have fun creating games on linux and to be able to sketch >>> and >>> > prototype and build games all in one place. (If you can develop >>> everything >>> > for emacs in emacs without leaving it, why shouldn't you be able to >>> create >>> > games without hassle?) >>> > First things I will do anyhow (but help is appreciated on all sides!): >>> > * Put all the dependencies of climacs on Git >>> > * Build climacs and fiddle with it to get accustomed to the inner >>> workings >>> > * Same with lispbuilder etc. >>> > What do you think? >>> > Greetings, >>> > Joop Kiefte >>> > -- >>> > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication >>> is >>> > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... >>> > >>> > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl >>> > >>> > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in >>> 2004 >>> > >>> > _______________________________________________ >>> > lisp-game-dev mailing list >>> > lisp-game-dev at common-lisp.net >>> > http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/lisp-game-dev >>> > >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is >> lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... >> >> - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl >> >> Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 >> > > > > -- > Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is > lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... > > - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl > > Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 > -- Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: gamemacs_mockup.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 20148 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ikojba at gmail.com Sun Apr 4 10:36:11 2010 From: ikojba at gmail.com (Joop Kiefte) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 12:36:11 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Climacs on GitHub! Message-ID: I have just pushed the Climacs and ESA parts to GitHub. Soon enough the other dependencies will be there as well. http://github.com/LaPingvino/Climacs http://github.com/LaPingvino/ESA Have fun! -- Communication is essential. So we need decent tools when communication is lacking, when language capability is hard to acquire... - http://esperanto.net - http://esperanto-jongeren.nl Linux-user #496644 (http://counter.li.org) - first touch of linux in 2004 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From nikodemus at random-state.net Sun Apr 4 15:53:21 2010 From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola) Date: Sun, 4 Apr 2010 18:53:21 +0300 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] [climacs-devel] Climacs on GitHub! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On 4 April 2010 13:36, Joop Kiefte wrote: > http://github.com/LaPingvino/Climacs > http://github.com/LaPingvino/ESA I'm not terribly involved with Climacs, but I would venture the opinion that making public a Git tree without *any* history from CVS is a terrible mistake. 1. cvs -d :pserver:anonymous:anonymous at common-lisp.net:/project/climacs/cvsroot login 2. git cvsimport -C climacs -d :pserver:anonymous at common-lisp.net:/project/climacs/cvsroot climacs ...wait... done. :) Cheers, -- Nikodemus From strandh at labri.fr Mon Apr 5 05:44:34 2010 From: strandh at labri.fr (Robert Strandh) Date: Mon, 5 Apr 2010 07:44:34 +0200 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] [climacs-devel] Gamemacs: an idea for a modular, extensible, capable and easy to use game-development IDE In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19385.30914.311798.992591@serveur5.labri.fr> Hello, Joop Kiefte writes: > > What do you think? I don't know much about game development, but I certainly think it is a good idea to revive Climacs, and I am willing to give you some advice along the way. Good luck! Regards, -- Robert Strandh --------------------------------------------------------------------- Greenspun's Tenth Rule of Programming: any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of Common Lisp. --------------------------------------------------------------------- From elliottslaughter at gmail.com Sun Apr 25 19:10:20 2010 From: elliottslaughter at gmail.com (Elliott Slaughter) Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:10:20 -0700 Subject: [lisp-game-dev] Thopter 0.3 Released Message-ID: Thopter 0.3 has been released! Thopter is a 2D scrolling shooter game in the style of Raptor: Call of the Shadows, with support for LAN multiplayer co-op mode. Version 0.3 includes new support for arbitrary numbers of player in multiplayer, and the *first ever build that does not crash on Windows* :-) Downloads for Windows and Mac OS X are available now, with Linux coming soon! -- Elliott Slaughter "Don't worry about what anybody else is going to do. The best way to predict the future is to invent it." - Alan Kay -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: