From davidhuebel at gmail.com  Wed Dec 13 22:29:38 2006
From: davidhuebel at gmail.com (David Huebel)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 16:29:38 -0600
Subject: [fetter-devel] New Verrazano administrator
Message-ID: <50c6b7b60612131429y76c895cay4407fa9309c4dbb6@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Rayiner Hashem has handed over administrative duties on the Verrazano
project to me.  Rayiner is still around and still interested in
Verrazano, but other obligations have limited his ability to work on
it.  Many congratulations and thanks to Rayiner for bringing Verrazano
this far and for continuing to make his knowledge available to the
project.

I'm fairly new to Common Lisp, but I'm a long-time C++ programmer and
fan with several years of professional C++ experience.  Right now I'm
just getting up to speed on Verrazano.  My motivation for getting
involved in Verrazano is that I work with C++ libraries and would like
to work with them in a more flexible, dynamic environment that offers
faster exploration of data and programming ideas.

Any current or past users of Verrazano are encourage to speak up about
their successes and difficulties with Verrazano.  Bug reports and
reports of errors on the web page are welcome -- I see some broken
links there that I will fix shortly.

David Huebel


From kentilton at gmail.com  Thu Dec 14 03:46:47 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 22:46:47 -0500
Subject: [fetter-devel] [Fwd: Re: Verrazano rising?]
Message-ID: <4580C927.6080208@gmail.com>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: Verrazano rising?
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:54:19 -0500
From: D Herring <dherring at at.tentpost.dot.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
References: <7z0fh.136$1x6.15 at newsfe09.lga> 
<1165998666.834834.53220 at 16g2000cwy.googlegroups.com> 
<_CWfh.448$n34.263 at newsfe09.lga>

Ken Tilton wrote:

> I guess what we really need is someone especially strong in C++, so this 
> is a great chance for a Lisp noob/C++ wizard to walk straight into the 
> Lisp hall of fame.

For the less wizardly, I have uploaded a brief overview of the C++ side
of things to http://androdna.com/basic_cpp_hack.zip

I also have a very primitive CFFI binding to C++ (Qt4, incomplete, some
glaring errors, only pops up a single dialog) at
http://androdna.com/pubsvn/qt_lisp/trunk/


Now I'm gonna give Verrazano a whirl.

- Daniel

P.S.  How does VZN compare to KDE's Smoke interface?
http://developer.kde.org/language-bindings/smoke/index.html

-- 
Algebra: http://www.tilton-technology.com/LispNycAlgebra1.htm

"Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty-five
years, Doctor, and I'm happy to state I finally
won out over it." -- Elwood P. Dowd

"I'll say I'm losing my grip, and it feels terrific."
    -- Smiling husband to scowling wife, New Yorker cartoon


From davidhuebel at gmail.com  Fri Dec 15 00:56:23 2006
From: davidhuebel at gmail.com (David Huebel)
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2006 18:56:23 -0600
Subject: [fetter-devel] Objections or comments on migrating to subversion?
Message-ID: <50c6b7b60612141656i5cddb219o7b57963b9eb57202@mail.gmail.com>

If I migrate the Verrazano repository to Subversion, common-lisp.net
will provide a Trac instance which provides ticket tracking and a
Wiki.  This will keep the state of the project public and shared.  (I
know, it's best to *fix* bugs, not collect, them, but still.)  The
wiki will provide a place for posting usage reports, tips, recipes,
and other documentation of a practical nature that doesn't need to be
controlled.

Several other projects on common-lisp.net that have Trac instances
appear to use them lightly or not at all.  This could very well turn
out to be the case for Verrazano, but I think it's worth setting it up
to see what develops.  It could be very useful as Verrazano broadens
out to more users and contributors.

I'll do the migration on Monday if I don't hear any objections.
Rayiner, you're the latest committer on all the files in the
repository -- let me know if this bothers you.

-David


From luismbo at gmail.com  Tue Dec 19 20:04:03 2006
From: luismbo at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Oliveira?=)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 20:04:03 +0000
Subject: [fetter-devel] [Fwd: Re: Verrazano rising?]
In-Reply-To: <4580C927.6080208@gmail.com>
References: <4580C927.6080208@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <391f79580612191204i1c2c8cdbq5d779e33f4745f25@mail.gmail.com>

On 12/14/06, Ken Tilton <kentilton at gmail.com> wrote:
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Verrazano rising?
> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:54:19 -0500
> From: D Herring <dherring at at.tentpost.dot.com>
[...]
> P.S.  How does VZN compare to KDE's Smoke interface?
> http://developer.kde.org/language-bindings/smoke/index.html

I just had an idea about this. Verrazano should support multiple
backends other than GCC-XML. For instance, it would be nice to have a
backend that parses the OpenGL specs (we have some of that in
cl-opengl already) and something that uses or mimics Smoke.

-- 
Lu?s Oliveira
http://student.dei.uc.pt/~lmoliv/


From kentilton at gmail.com  Tue Dec 19 22:41:56 2006
From: kentilton at gmail.com (Ken Tilton)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 17:41:56 -0500
Subject: [fetter-devel] [Fwd: Re: Verrazano rising?]
In-Reply-To: <391f79580612191204i1c2c8cdbq5d779e33f4745f25@mail.gmail.com>
References: <4580C927.6080208@gmail.com>
	<391f79580612191204i1c2c8cdbq5d779e33f4745f25@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <45886AB4.1010604@gmail.com>

Lu?s Oliveira wrote:

> On 12/14/06, Ken Tilton <kentilton at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> -------- Original Message --------
>> Subject: Re: Verrazano rising?
>> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:54:19 -0500
>> From: D Herring <dherring at at.tentpost.dot.com>
>
> [...]
>
>> P.S.  How does VZN compare to KDE's Smoke interface?
>> http://developer.kde.org/language-bindings/smoke/index.html
>
>
> I just had an idea about this. Verrazano should support multiple
> backends other than GCC-XML.

Do you mean front-end? As in input? Backends would be outputs, UFFI vs 
CFFI for example (tho a bad one since CFFI has eclipsed UFFI (tho I see 
KR has just released an upgrade)).

> For instance, it would be nice to have a
> backend that parses the OpenGL specs (we have some of that in
> cl-opengl already)

What added value do those specs offer? (Asking, not arguing.) Is it that 
we do not have the source to OpenGL, so we need something else to tell 
us how various parameters are used? Makes sense.

> and something that uses or mimics Smoke.
>
I will have to look at that again, did not quite get the drift.

Vzn is designed, IIRC, to have an intermediate representation formed by 
reading gcc_xml output, used to produce bindings. So your idea could 
work, just make a diff front-end to read the OpenGL specs to produce or 
enrich the intermediate representation, which I am getting tired of 
typing and will call UCL (Universal C api descriptor Language). We have 
talked all along about leveraging work done on SWIG that hardcodes api 
stuff, and I had great fun with the Antlr parser getting right down into 
the C source (where we could look for str* functions operating on 
strings or assigning to dereferenced parameter pointers)... haha, talk 
about metaprogramming and macros and processing source. :)

kenny tilton
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From rayiner at gmail.com  Wed Dec 20 03:02:50 2006
From: rayiner at gmail.com (Rayiner Hashem)
Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2006 22:02:50 -0500
Subject: [fetter-devel] [Fwd: Re: Verrazano rising?]
In-Reply-To: <45886AB4.1010604@gmail.com>
References: <4580C927.6080208@gmail.com>
	<391f79580612191204i1c2c8cdbq5d779e33f4745f25@mail.gmail.com>
	<45886AB4.1010604@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <d082aad0612191902k43bb9a60yf7b3b74fd3da5c91@mail.gmail.com>

Verrazano's IR is quite well-seperated from both its front-end and its
back-end (and IIRC documented somewhere), so if there is interest in a
front-end other than GCC-XML, it would be quite doable. There is also
a provision for annotating the IR to encode details to guide the
translation, though such annotations are neither generated nor used at
the moment.

If Luis could comment more precisely on what benefits he sees from
another front-end, I could comment more specifically.

Sincerely,
    Rayiner Hashem

On 12/19/06, Ken Tilton <kentilton at gmail.com> wrote:
> Lu?s Oliveira wrote:
>
> > On 12/14/06, Ken Tilton <kentilton at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> -------- Original Message --------
> >> Subject: Re: Verrazano rising?
> >> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2006 20:54:19 -0500
> >> From: D Herring <dherring at at.tentpost.dot.com>
> >
> > [...]
> >
> >> P.S.  How does VZN compare to KDE's Smoke interface?
> >> http://developer.kde.org/language-bindings/smoke/index.html
> >
> >
> > I just had an idea about this. Verrazano should support multiple
> > backends other than GCC-XML.
>
> Do you mean front-end? As in input? Backends would be outputs, UFFI vs
> CFFI for example (tho a bad one since CFFI has eclipsed UFFI (tho I see
> KR has just released an upgrade)).
>
> > For instance, it would be nice to have a
> > backend that parses the OpenGL specs (we have some of that in
> > cl-opengl already)
>
> What added value do those specs offer? (Asking, not arguing.) Is it that
> we do not have the source to OpenGL, so we need something else to tell
> us how various parameters are used? Makes sense.
>
> > and something that uses or mimics Smoke.
> >
> I will have to look at that again, did not quite get the drift.
>
> Vzn is designed, IIRC, to have an intermediate representation formed by
> reading gcc_xml output, used to produce bindings. So your idea could
> work, just make a diff front-end to read the OpenGL specs to produce or
> enrich the intermediate representation, which I am getting tired of
> typing and will call UCL (Universal C api descriptor Language). We have
> talked all along about leveraging work done on SWIG that hardcodes api
> stuff, and I had great fun with the Antlr parser getting right down into
> the C source (where we could look for str* functions operating on
> strings or assigning to dereferenced parameter pointers)... haha, talk
> about metaprogramming and macros and processing source. :)
>
> kenny tilton
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> fetter-devel mailing list
> fetter-devel at common-lisp.net
> http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fetter-devel
>
>
>
>