From bvanevery at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 16:53:02 2011
From: bvanevery at gmail.com (Brandon Van Every)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 12:53:02 -0400
Subject: [cl-opengl-devel] a substantial Windows app
Message-ID: <BANLkTimvi4mpMf4oVkm9xvwOh28f8JPAbw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, I'm pretty new to Common Lisp, Clozure CL, Quicklisp, and
cl-opengl.  I'm looking for a substantial open source app that uses
cl-opengl and builds on Windows.  By "substantial" I mean more than a
very basic game or tutorial or demo.  Something that really puts
cl-opengl to work, preferably with relatively modern OpenGL API
functionality, such as vertex arrays and shaders and not glBegin glEnd
semantics.  Like, a First Person Shooter would be substantial, or a
medical visualization would be substantial.  The purpose is to
understand how the substantial app is built, how robust or buggy the
app is on this platform, and to evaluate the OpenGL performance of the
app.

Is there some easy way in Quicklisp to find all the packages that use
cl-opengl?  (ql:system-apropos "cl-opengl") only lists cl-opengl
itself.  I've been Googling about cl-opengl but that method is proving
to be slow.

"Builds on Windows" is important because sometimes packages want
things that don't readily exist on Windows.  For instance,
until-it-dies makes use of FTGL, an obsolete library that hasn't been
worked on since 2008.  It doesn't have any Windows binaries for the
foreign .dlls.  Although I could go through the pain of modernizing an
old VC8 .sln file, and renaming dependencies to FreeType per some
other website I read, it's just not worth it to me.  I want to look at
a substantial app under active development that actually works on
Windows.

Generally I can handle foreign .dll dependencies as long as those
foreign .dlls are under active development.  I've been shoving various
"SDKs" into C:\Program Files\ and adding their .dll directories to my
PATH.  It keeps Quicklisp happy.  No idea yet if the end products will
actually work, as .dll Hell could rear its ugly head.


Cheers,
Brandon Van Every



From bvanevery at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 23:10:54 2011
From: bvanevery at gmail.com (Brandon Van Every)
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 19:10:54 -0400
Subject: [cl-opengl-devel] a substantial Windows app
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimvi4mpMf4oVkm9xvwOh28f8JPAbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimvi4mpMf4oVkm9xvwOh28f8JPAbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=+OVO-vWKaugukA_NEaAYg6npbYQ@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Brandon Van Every <bvanevery at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Is there some easy way in Quicklisp to find all the packages that use
> cl-opengl? ?(ql:system-apropos "cl-opengl") only lists cl-opengl
> itself. ?I've been Googling about cl-opengl but that method is proving
> to be slow.

On the Quicklisp mailing list I was given this code snippet:

 (use-package :ql-dist)
 (remove-if-not
  (lambda (system)
    (member "cl-opengl" (required-systems system) :test #'string=))
  (provided-systems t))

It produced these results:

(#<SYSTEM blackthorn / blackthorn-engine-20110320-hg / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM cells-gtk / cells-gtk3-20110219-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM cl-glu / cl-opengl-20110320-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM cl-glut / cl-opengl-20110320-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM cl-glut-examples / cl-opengl-20110320-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM glaw / glaw-20110219-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM glop-test / glop-20110219-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM test-gtk / cells-gtk3-20110219-git / quicklisp 2011-03-20>
#<SYSTEM until-it-dies.base / until-it-dies-20101006-git / quicklisp
2011-03-20>)
?


Cheers,
Brandon Van Every



From luismbo at gmail.com  Thu Apr  7 23:21:51 2011
From: luismbo at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Lu=EDs_Oliveira?=)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 00:21:51 +0100
Subject: [cl-opengl-devel] a substantial Windows app
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTimvi4mpMf4oVkm9xvwOh28f8JPAbw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimvi4mpMf4oVkm9xvwOh28f8JPAbw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTingVk0nOqb4q0_usiybwENJAiDQXQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Brandon,

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 5:53 PM, Brandon Van Every <bvanevery at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi, I'm pretty new to Common Lisp, Clozure CL, Quicklisp, and
> cl-opengl. ?I'm looking for a substantial open source app that uses
> cl-opengl and builds on Windows.

The most substantial app I'm aware of is Perfectstorm:
<http://erleuchtet.org/2008/03/project-overview-perfectstorm.html>.
However it might not build with a recent cl-opengl.

Cheers,

-- 
Lu?s Oliveira
http://r42.eu/~luis/



From bvanevery at gmail.com  Fri Apr  8 19:12:52 2011
From: bvanevery at gmail.com (Brandon Van Every)
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:12:52 -0400
Subject: [cl-opengl-devel] a substantial Windows app
In-Reply-To: <BANLkTingVk0nOqb4q0_usiybwENJAiDQXQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <BANLkTimvi4mpMf4oVkm9xvwOh28f8JPAbw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BANLkTingVk0nOqb4q0_usiybwENJAiDQXQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BANLkTinfvXO+f=FS3mMCxJx9iqrtPAasZg@mail.gmail.com>

On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Lu?s Oliveira <luismbo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> The most substantial app I'm aware of is Perfectstorm:
> <http://erleuchtet.org/2008/03/project-overview-perfectstorm.html>.
> However it might not build with a recent cl-opengl.

The SVN repository given in that blog entry appears to be dead.  Do
you know of some other way to obtain the source?  I suspect this
project is no more.  The blog says, "But beware! the current state is
not that presentable: you?ll just see pathfinding debug output at the
moment. When a first dummy is playable and the code is cleaned up a
bit we?ll make a project page."  Google doesn't reveal any such page.


Cheers,
Brandon Van Every



From luke at balooga.com  Sat Apr  9 21:48:19 2011
From: luke at balooga.com (Luke Crook)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 14:48:19 -0700
Subject: [cl-opengl-devel] cl-opengl-devel Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <mailman.6.1302364806.26512.cl-opengl-devel@common-lisp.net>
References: <mailman.6.1302364806.26512.cl-opengl-devel@common-lisp.net>
Message-ID: <-6518984801295256389@unknownmsgid>

{Apologies to the group for top-posting}

It looks like a substantial application. It was built using Common
Lisp and OpenGL. Now you know it can be done. Isn't that sufficient?

-Luke

On Apr 9, 2011, at 9:00, "cl-opengl-devel-request at common-lisp.net"
<cl-opengl-devel-request at common-lisp.net> wrote:

> Send cl-opengl-devel mailing list submissions to
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>
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>
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>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of cl-opengl-devel digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>   1. Re: a substantial Windows app (Brandon Van Every)
> On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 7:21 PM, Lu?s Oliveira <luismbo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The most substantial app I'm aware of is Perfectstorm:
>> <http://erleuchtet.org/2008/03/project-overview-perfectstorm.html>.
>> However it might not build with a recent cl-opengl.
>
> The SVN repository given in that blog entry appears to be dead.  Do
> you know of some other way to obtain the source?  I suspect this
> project is no more.  The blog says, "But beware! the current state is
> not that presentable: you?ll just see pathfinding debug output at the
> moment. When a first dummy is playable and the code is cleaned up a
> bit we?ll make a project page."  Google doesn't reveal any such page.
>
>
> Cheers,
> Brandon Van Every
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> cl-opengl-devel mailing list
> cl-opengl-devel at common-lisp.net
> http://common-lisp.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/cl-opengl-devel



From bvanevery at gmail.com  Sat Apr  9 23:04:22 2011
From: bvanevery at gmail.com (Brandon Van Every)
Date: Sat, 9 Apr 2011 19:04:22 -0400
Subject: [cl-opengl-devel] cl-opengl-devel Digest, Vol 50, Issue 2
In-Reply-To: <-6518984801295256389@unknownmsgid>
References: <mailman.6.1302364806.26512.cl-opengl-devel@common-lisp.net>
	<-6518984801295256389@unknownmsgid>
Message-ID: <BANLkTi=sKYywRFprxLfTbpeURDuMT7cpUg@mail.gmail.com>

On Sat, Apr 9, 2011 at 5:48 PM, Luke Crook <luke at balooga.com> wrote:
>
> [perfectstorm] looks like a substantial application.

To be honest I can't evaluate that from a few screenshots.  Some
people are more savvy about making screenshots early and often than
others.

> It was built using Common
> Lisp and OpenGL. Now you know it can be done.

I really wouldn't know what was actually done... except that the
author just pointed me at the last source code distro, so now I can
check.  :-)  http://erleuchtet.org/~cupe/perfectstorm-dist.tar.gz

> Isn't that sufficient?

Compared to my original questions, I really don't think so.  It proves
that the author got started in that direction, not that he finished,
or that people generally do finish and sustain such projects.  He did
say, however, that he did something substantial with cl-opengl for a
medical engineering visualization job.  Someone else was responsible
for packaging up the Windows .exe.  So "yes," someone has done it,
which is a good thing to know.  I just can't look at those results.


Cheers,
Brandon Van Every