why does ASDF ask to please only define system/test?

Robert P. Goldman rpgoldman at sift.net
Wed Dec 12 02:58:39 UTC 2018

Thanks, Attila. I must say that as the remaining maintainer, this kind of complaining doesn't make me excited about doing my ASDF chores.

This warning won't go away on my watch. Fare's change to support "slashy" systems is an elegant way to handle subsystems.

I'm sorry that some people used hyphens for subsystems, and some for just word separation, but sometimes in the interests of clarity someone loses.

Eventually I will just hack in a restart that muffles this warning specifically for cl-ppcre, and then we will all have to find something else to be pissed off about....

But right now I'm mostly working in Python, where no one's being an ingrate, so I have better things to do with my time.

Sent from my iPad

> On Dec 11, 2018, at 13:04, Attila Lendvai <attila at lendvai.name> wrote:
> sorry Stas, but i just had to dishonestly (?) cut your mail... :) with
> the hope that it will incite some reflection:
>> I specifically don't update cl-ppcre.asd [...]
>> [...] and all the users can do is just to suck it up.
> FTR, there's an open PR with discussion:
> https://github.com/edicl/cl-ppcre/pull/30
> i understand that "it was him who made the first change!", and
> "everything would still be fine if he doesn't make a change!"... but
> i'm not sure it's reasonable to expect this kind of conservatism in a
> collaborative space. old ASDF was a piece of software that wasn't
> designed for the tasks it is used for today (as in its API, let alone
> its implementation), and that was causing a lot of headache to "the
> users" you seem to be defending above.
> i don't have a strong opinion about this specific warning. to be
> honest, if i was the ASDF maintainer, it would be fine for me if the
> warning was off by default, and i would only turn it on in my own CI
> to send out the PR's and/or warnings to the relevant maintainers, and
> then let old and/or conservative libs continue to misbehave as they
> did with the old ASDF.
> but it's quite disheartening to see all the trash-talk against the
> refactored ASDF. i may be just one user, but the cleanup of ASDF
> helped me tremendously! maybe i was using more deps than usual (~100),
> and had to deal with live systems and whatnot that most CL users don't
> do...? but prior to the ASDF cleanup i had wasted countless hours
> hunting build-related bugs only to realize that there wasn't any bug
> (in my code), and by getting used to mindlessly rebuilding from
> scratch *any time* something strange happened.
> conservatism, and the general hostility, has always troubled me in the
> CL community, but i don't have a dog in this fight currently, or maybe
> even anymore, so i better cut the talk...
> good luck resolving whatever needs to be resolved for a better
> tomorrow!
> -- 
> • attila lendvai
> • PGP: 963F 5D5F 45C7 DFCD 0A39
> --
> “The more artificial taboos and restrictions there are in the world,
> the more the people are impoverished…. The more that laws and
> regulations are given prominence, the more thieves and robbers there
> will be.”
> — Lao Tzu (sixth century BC)

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