<html><head></head><body><div class="yahoo-style-wrap" style="font-family:Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;font-size:13px;"><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Gents,</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I nearly had ABCL into an upcoming project, until I checked the license. I should have looked at this before I embarked down this path, but for some reason assumed that since ABCL is a relatively young implementation it was using Apache/MIT/BSD or something similar.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Here's the opensource clause from the contract:</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
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<p class="ydp529e797cLegal3L2" style="margin-left:0in;text-indent:0in;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo1;tab-stops:list .5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US"><span>1.1<span style="font-style: normal; font-weight: normal; font-stretch: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: "Times New Roman"; font-size-adjust: none;">
</span></span></span><u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE</span></u><span style="font-size:11.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt" lang="EN-US">.<span> </span>To the extent that the Company develops or
provides any software to <Customer> under this Agreement, without <Customer’s> prior
written consent, that <Customer> may grant or withhold in its sole discretion, no
such deliverable shall incorporate, link to or call upon any Open Source
Software.<span> </span>“<b>Open Source Software</b>” means any software that is generally available
to the public in source code form under (i) licenses substantially similar to
those approved by the Open Source Initiative and listed at
http://www.opensource.org/licenses, or (ii) any copyleft license (including a
Reciprocal License), or (iii) any other license that contains terms that
require, whether or not conditionally, disclosure of any source code.</span></p></span><div><span>
</span><font face=""Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif"><br></font></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">This clause, or one very much like it, has been in every contract for the last 10 years or so, or at least since the BusyBox debacle. Most of the time companies have a list of pre-approved licenses, with MIT/Apache/BSD almost always being on it. Note the specific exclusion "any copyleft license" and any license in any form that might cause disclosure of source code.</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Reading the ABCL FAQ and web page, it seems the intention is to avoid compelling a company from releasing their source code:</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><blockquote><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><span>The use of Armed Bear Common Lisp (ABCL) is covered by
the <a href="https://www.gnu.org/copyleft/gpl.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">
GNU General Public License</a>
with <a href="https://www.gnu.org/software/classpath/license.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank" class="enhancr_card_6962238152">Classpath exception</a>, meaning that
you can use ABCL in your application without the
requirement to open the sources to your application.</span><br></div></blockquote><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">However there's a few problem with this:</div><ol dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><li>It has the words "GNU General Public License", which rings loud alarm bells with corporate lawyers (and is disqualified by clauses ii/iii anyway)</li><li>Whilst the intention is to allow ABCL to be mixed with proprietary code, the IP equivalent of ambulance chasing lawyers may still see it as an opportunity for profit. It's worth reading the BusyBox saga if you're not familiar with it.<br></li><li>It's never been tested in court</li></ol><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">The last point is worth elaborating on. I once cornered a friendly corporate lawyer at one of our company drinks functions and showed him the LLGPL and asked what he thought. His response put it all in perspective. He said:</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><blockquote><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">"It looks fine to me, but it's never been tested in court. Would you take an open source project and deploy it to production and bet the company's livelihood on it, without testing it first?"</div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">I guess I can't blame them really. Would you want stick your neck out for something with potentially catastrophic consequences, when there's plenty of alternatives? Lisp has enough of an uphill climb just on the technology front, this is the nail in the coffin.<br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false">Questions:</div><ol><li>Would the current maintainers of ABCL consider relicensing it under a MIT, BSD or Apache license?</li><li>If so, do we have a list of all the contributors?</li><li>If so, how many are there and are they contactable?</li></ol><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div></blockquote><div dir="ltr" data-setdir="false"><br></div></div></div></body></html>