From erik at nittin.net  Tue Sep  2 14:11:08 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2003 10:11:08 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Re: WWW & FTP updates not working
In-Reply-To: <20030830023039.GA5437@random-state.net> (Nikodemus Siivola's
	message of "Sat, 30 Aug 2003 05:30:39 +0300")
References: <20030830023039.GA5437@random-state.net>
Message-ID: <87n0dnwa9v.fsf@nittin.net>

Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> writes:

> Erik, FTP & WWW updates don't seem to be working.

Hm.  Seems that cron had died.  Very peculiar.  I'll have to keep an eye
on this.  Thanks for letting me know.

Erik.



From asf at boinkor.net  Thu Sep 11 14:31:54 2003
From: asf at boinkor.net (Andreas Fuchs)
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:31:54 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
Message-ID: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>

Hi all,

I was hoping to get ftp space for an arch archive & download area for my
UBF-in-CL package.

UBF is the Universal Binary Format by Joe Armstrong (it is documented in
http://www.sics.se/~joe/ubf/site/home.html). You could call it a
tasteful alternative to XML; it doesn't use SEXPs but a stack-based
format and has special provisions for binary data as well as strings,
integers, symbols and type-tagged objects. Currently, only the UBF(A)
format is implemented (a reader and a writer exist, both perform
reasonably well)

Despite there being another implementation in Common Lisp (which is only
mentioned in a mailing list post with no source code to be found /-:),
let's call it "ubf" (-:

The only contributor at the moment is me; the code is in the public
domain.

Thanks,
-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <asf at acm.org>, asf at jabber.at, antifuchs



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Fri Sep 12 08:17:17 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:17:17 +0200
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
Message-ID: <fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Andreas Fuchs <asf at boinkor.net> writes:
> Hi all,
> 
> I was hoping to get ftp space for an arch archive & download area for my
> UBF-in-CL package.

You do not want our version control facilities? Awww... :)

> UBF is the Universal Binary Format by Joe Armstrong (it is documented in
> http://www.sics.se/~joe/ubf/site/home.html). You could call it a
> tasteful alternative to XML; it doesn't use SEXPs but a stack-based
> format and has special provisions for binary data as well as strings,
> integers, symbols and type-tagged objects. Currently, only the UBF(A)
> format is implemented (a reader and a writer exist, both perform
> reasonably well)
> 
> Despite there being another implementation in Common Lisp (which is only
> mentioned in a mailing list post with no source code to be found /-:),
> let's call it "ubf" (-:

Well, I wouldn't call a linear algebra package "linear algebra", or an
XML parser "xml", because they aren't what their name sugests. I would
prefer something along the lines of "ubf.lisp", or "cl-ubf",
"UBF-in-CL" etc.

> The only contributor at the moment is me; the code is in the public
> domain.

Is my guess corect that you are an austrian citizen living in austria?
I ask because at least in germany it is not possible to put things in
the public domain...

Regards,

Mario.




From asf at boinkor.net  Fri Sep 12 08:51:01 2003
From: asf at boinkor.net (Andreas Fuchs <asf@boinkor.net>)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:51:01 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>

Today, Mario Mommer <mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
>> I was hoping to get ftp space for an arch archive & download area for
>> my UBF-in-CL package.
> You do not want our version control facilities? Awww... :)

heh, it's in arch already - there is no way to export it into CVS
*lalala* (-;

>> Despite there being another implementation in Common Lisp (which is
>> only mentioned in a mailing list post with no source code to be found
>> /-:), let's call it "ubf" (-:
>
> Well, I wouldn't call a linear algebra package "linear algebra", or an
> XML parser "xml", because they aren't what their name sugests. I would
> prefer something along the lines of "ubf.lisp", or "cl-ubf",
> "UBF-in-CL" etc.

ah, good one. I was thinking that it would fit in well together with
rfc<nnnn> (cl implementations of the respective RFCs) and linedit (a
line editing package) (-:

cl-ubf will do, of course.

>> The only contributor at the moment is me; the code is in the public
>> domain.
>
> Is my guess corect that you are an austrian citizen living in austria?
> I ask because at least in germany it is not possible to put things in
> the public domain...

I am an Austrian, living in Austria, and now that you mention it, I'm
not so sure about the PD situation here, either. I'll change the licence
to a BSD one (sans advertising clause), which should be OK.

-- 
Andreas Fuchs, <asf at acm.org>, asf at jabber.at, antifuchs



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Fri Sep 12 11:34:40 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:34:40 +0200
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
Message-ID: <fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>


"Andreas Fuchs <asf at boinkor.net>" <asf at boinkor.net> writes:
> Today, Mario Mommer <mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> wrote:
> >> I was hoping to get ftp space for an arch archive & download area for
> >> my UBF-in-CL package.
> > You do not want our version control facilities? Awww... :)
> 
> heh, it's in arch already - there is no way to export it into CVS
> *lalala* (-;

:-)

I read over "arch archive" and only saw "archive". Well, ok.

Erik, do we support arch? I remember we talked about it as a
possibility, but I do not remember what was decided.

> > Well, I wouldn't call a linear algebra package "linear algebra", or an
> > XML parser "xml", because they aren't what their name sugests. I would
> > prefer something along the lines of "ubf.lisp", or "cl-ubf",
> > "UBF-in-CL" etc.
> 
> ah, good one. I was thinking that it would fit in well together with
> rfc<nnnn> (cl implementations of the respective RFCs) and linedit (a
> line editing package) (-:

Which is a good argument against the rfc<nnnn> names. I think I just
changed my mind on those rfc<nnnn> names; I don't think anymore that
they are good names, because the projects aren't the rfc. Linedit is
an invented word, afaict, so I'd think it is 100% ok.

> cl-ubf will do, of course.

Ok.

> I am an Austrian, living in Austria, and now that you mention it, I'm
> not so sure about the PD situation here, either. I'll change the licence
> to a BSD one (sans advertising clause), which should be OK.

Ok.

Then, as far as I am concerned, I think your project should get
hosting here. The only thing that remains to be cleared is whether we
support arch or not.

Regards,
        Mario.




From nikodemus at random-state.net  Fri Sep 12 11:45:07 2003
From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:45:07 +0300
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <20030912114506.GA1727@random-state.net>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 01:34:40PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote:

> Erik, do we support arch? I remember we talked about it as a
> possibility, but I do not remember what was decided.

I don't think anythink got decided, but then again arch requires very
little in the way of support: if the $project/ftp and $pubftp/project
are in sync (or preferably the same directory), then the arch users
are set up. ;)

> > > Well, I wouldn't call a linear algebra package "linear algebra", or an
> > > XML parser "xml", because they aren't what their name sugests. I would
> > > prefer something along the lines of "ubf.lisp", or "cl-ubf",
> > > "UBF-in-CL" etc.

I'm get more and more agnostic on the naming issues as time passes
by. ;)

The only thing I'd comment against would be gratuitious .lisp
postfixes and cl- prefixes, unless the project provides cl bindings to
a foreign linbrary -- in which case cl-foo makes perfect sense.

But I'm saying this "just for the record", not against cl-ubf as a name.

I think a good guideline is: "Would you dedicate a CLiki page by that
name to you project?".

Cheers,

 -- Nikodemus
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From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Fri Sep 12 12:45:14 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:45:14 +0200
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <20030912114506.GA1727@random-state.net>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<20030912114506.GA1727@random-state.net>
Message-ID: <fzy8wup44l.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> writes:
> On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 01:34:40PM +0200, Mario Mommer wrote:
> 
> > Erik, do we support arch? I remember we talked about it as a
> > possibility, but I do not remember what was decided.
> 
> I don't think anythink got decided, but then again arch requires very
> little in the way of support: if the $project/ftp and $pubftp/project
> are in sync (or preferably the same directory), then the arch users
> are set up. ;)

Ok, then it looks like we support arch :)

> I'm get more and more agnostic on the naming issues as time passes
> by. ;)
>
> The only thing I'd comment against would be gratuitious .lisp
> postfixes and cl- prefixes, unless the project provides cl bindings to
> a foreign linbrary -- in which case cl-foo makes perfect sense.

Hm.

> But I'm saying this "just for the record", not against cl-ubf as a name.

Ok.

> I think a good guideline is: "Would you dedicate a CLiki page by that
> name to you project?".

Since Andreas looks every bit like he would, I consider his request
approved, up to objections by others...

Regards,
        Mario.




From erik-nittin at imeme.net  Fri Sep 12 15:27:18 2003
From: erik-nittin at imeme.net (erik-nittin at imeme.net)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:27:18 +0900 (TPT)
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>

> Which is a good argument against the rfc<nnnn> names. I think I just
> changed my mind on those rfc<nnnn> names; I don't think anymore that
> they are good names, because the projects aren't the rfc. Linedit is an
> invented word, afaict, so I'd think it is 100% ok.

I don't fully understand your motivation.  We're already in the context
of CL, so cl-rfc822 sounds superfluous to me.  It annoys me every time
I say:

  (cl-ppcre:scan ...)

Having to say

  (cl-rfc822:parse-date ...)

is so silly.  IMHO, of course.  Nicknames could be a solution to that.

If I'm in comp.lang.python and make a reference to the Common Lisp
implementation of rfc822 I would probably say "a CL implementation of
rfc822".  If it's a package in Debian, I have no problems with the
Debian package being named cl-rfc822.  djb's RFC 822 implementation
is called "mess822"; the Python module is called "rfc822" so is the
Ruby version.

I guess I'm being a bit stubborn.  I think I see what you mean; you're
not suggesting that we have cl-araneida and cl-sb-sockets, but rather
that proper names such as RFC 822 should be cl-rfc822 to indicate that
this is not the proper thing itself but rather an implementation of it.

Whatever the popular vote is, I'll go with it.

One good thing about having packages prefixed with cl- like that is that
a Google search for "cl-rfc822" should be fairly indicative of whether
there is such a package out there or not.

> Then, as far as I am concerned, I think your project should get
> hosting here.

I agree.

> The only thing that remains to be cleared is whether we
> support arch or not.

Andreas summarized the things I had to do to make that a reality
in an email some time back.  I'll have a look at it again and
see if I can get the time to set this up rather rapidly.

Erik.





From miles at caddr.com  Fri Sep 12 17:37:21 2003
From: miles at caddr.com (Miles Egan)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 10:37:21 -0700
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
Message-ID: <3F620451.7050906@caddr.com>

erik-nittin at imeme.net wrote:

> I guess I'm being a bit stubborn. I think I see what you mean; 
> you'renot suggesting that we have cl-araneida and cl-sb-sockets, but 
> ratherthat proper names such as RFC 822 should be cl-rfc822 to 
> indicate thatthis is not the proper thing itself but rather an 
> implementation of it. Whatever the popular vote is, I'll go with it.

I definitely prefer ubf over cl-ubf.  I think we should use the cl- 
prefix when it's a cl wrapper of an existing library.

I also strongly dislike the rfcXXX convention. Why not use something 
like "mime" or "mime-headers".  The python module used to be called 
rfc822 but now it's "email".

miles





From erik at nittin.net  Fri Sep 12 19:01:23 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:01:23 -0400
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <3F620451.7050906@caddr.com> (Miles Egan's message of "Fri, 12
	Sep 2003 10:37:21 -0700")
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com>
Message-ID: <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>

Miles Egan <miles at caddr.com> writes:

> I also strongly dislike the rfcXXX convention. Why not use something
> like "mime" or "mime-headers".  The python module used to be called
> rfc822 but now it's "email".

I personally don't like "email" because it's too general and specific a
name for that package at the same time, but anyway; what should I call
my RFC 2822 implementation?  I guess I could go with the title:
"Internet Message Format".  Too long for my carpal tunnel but some good
nicknames might solve that.

I like rfc2822 because it is very specific and, to me at least,
unambiguous.  If I saw "Internet Message Format" I might think "is that
an implementation of rfc2822 or is there some other format out there
that I don't know about".

This discussion creeps up every now and then and I suggest this time we
finish it and document our decision and see if we can't convince the
rest of the CL world to adopt our policy too (yeah, right).

I'm easy: I'll go with the popular vote.

Erik.



From erik at nittin.net  Fri Sep 12 19:11:30 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 15:11:30 -0400
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net> (Erik Enge's message of "Fri, 12
	Sep 2003 15:01:23 -0400")
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com> <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <87n0d9ddp9.fsf@nittin.net>

Erik Enge <erik at nittin.net> writes:

> I guess I could go with the title: "Internet Message Format".

Observations: "mime" is a good name for a package that implements all
mime-related RFCs.  "smtp" is a good name for a package that implements
all smtp-related RFCs.

Erik.



From miles at caddr.com  Fri Sep 12 20:11:31 2003
From: miles at caddr.com (Miles Egan)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 13:11:31 -0700
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com>
	<87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <3F622873.50805@caddr.com>

Erik Enge wrote:

>Miles Egan <miles at caddr.com> writes:
>
>  
>
>>I also strongly dislike the rfcXXX convention. Why not use something
>>like "mime" or "mime-headers".  The python module used to be called
>>rfc822 but now it's "email".
>>    
>>
>
>I personally don't like "email" because it's too general and specific a
>name for that package at the same time, but anyway; what should I call
>my RFC 2822 implementation?  I guess I could go with the title:
>"Internet Message Format".  Too long for my carpal tunnel but some good
>nicknames might solve that.
>
>I like rfc2822 because it is very specific and, to me at least,
>unambiguous.  If I saw "Internet Message Format" I might think "is that
>an implementation of rfc2822 or is there some other format out there
>that I don't know about".
>  
>
To me rfcXXX is extremely ambiguous because I can't remember what all 
the rfc numbers are. Obvious seems better than precise in this case.

miles




From erik at nittin.net  Fri Sep 12 20:27:31 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:27:31 -0400
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <3F622873.50805@caddr.com> (Miles Egan's message of "Fri, 12
	Sep 2003 13:11:31 -0700")
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com> <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
	<3F622873.50805@caddr.com>
Message-ID: <878yotda6k.fsf@nittin.net>

Miles Egan <miles at caddr.com> writes:

> Obvious seems better than precise in this case.

Heh, yeah, exactly, and to my ear "rfc2822" is obvious whereas "internet
message format" isn't.  Ah, a classic problem this.  :-)

But let me make something clear: I don't /really/ care what the
convention is.  I do care that there is a convention and if we all can
agree on one I'll happily follow it (I'll even rename my rfc2822
package).

So, is our plan so far: cl- for wrappers around libraries; proper nouns
are preferable; RFCs use a shortned version of their title?

Erik.



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Sep 15 16:26:55 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:26:55 +0200
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <878yotda6k.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com>
	<87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net> <3F622873.50805@caddr.com>
	<878yotda6k.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <fzd6e2nhkg.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Erik Enge <erik at nittin.net> writes:
> Miles Egan <miles at caddr.com> writes:
> 
> > Obvious seems better than precise in this case.
> 
> Heh, yeah, exactly, and to my ear "rfc2822" is obvious whereas "internet
> message format" isn't.  Ah, a classic problem this.  :-)
[...]
> So, is our plan so far: cl- for wrappers around libraries; proper nouns
> are preferable; RFCs use a shortned version of their title?

Sounds good so far, except that I don't know if that is too inflexible
for rfcs.

I tried to find some guidelines at sourceforge, but found none. Any
ideas how they deal with this? And savvannah?

Regards,
        Mario.




From nikodemus at random-state.net  Fri Sep 12 21:27:46 2003
From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola)
Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:27:46 +0300
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com> <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <20030912212745.GB1727@random-state.net>

On Fri, Sep 12, 2003 at 03:01:23PM -0400, Erik Enge wrote:

> This discussion creeps up every now and then and I suggest this time we
> finish it and document our decision and see if we can't convince the
> rest of the CL world to adopt our policy too (yeah, right).

This issue is potentially tad larger than just us, though. And even if
it is a pain, things *can* be restructured later. [ Think of the Great
Renaming if you don't belive. ]

I'm personally assuming that a shared (or at least "mostly shared")
namespace between Common-lisp.net, CCLAN and CLiki would be a Good
Thing, and this seems to have at least some support on the other side
of the fence as well.

First things first:

 "Do we want to try for a namespace shared with CCLAN and CLiki?"

I say yes.

Cheers,

 -- Nikodemus
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From erik at nittin.net  Mon Sep 15 13:19:05 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:19:05 -0400
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <20030912212745.GB1727@random-state.net> (Nikodemus Siivola's
	message of "Sat, 13 Sep 2003 00:27:46 +0300")
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fzoexqv2sy.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<86znha8k5n.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
	<fz7k4eqlyn.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
	<2938.66.156.41.2.1063380438.squirrel@imeme.net>
	<3F620451.7050906@caddr.com> <87r82lde64.fsf@nittin.net>
	<20030912212745.GB1727@random-state.net>
Message-ID: <87ad96b35i.fsf@nittin.net>

Nikodemus Siivola <nikodemus at random-state.net> writes:

>  "Do we want to try for a namespace shared with CCLAN and CLiki?"

I think so, yes.

Erik.



From erik at nittin.net  Mon Sep 15 13:29:21 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:29:21 -0400
Subject: [Admin] hosting the UBF-in-CL project
In-Reply-To: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at> (Andreas Fuchs's message of
	"Thu, 11 Sep 2003 16:31:54 +0200 (CEST)")
References: <86y8wvz99h.fsf@boinkine.defun.at>
Message-ID: <871xuib2oe.fsf@nittin.net>

Andreas Fuchs <asf at boinkor.net> writes:

> Despite there being another implementation in Common Lisp (which is
> only mentioned in a mailing list post with no source code to be found
> /-:), let's call it "ubf" (-:

I fear our namingconvention-discussing might take a while.  Why don't we
go ahead and create "ubf" as a project for Andreas so he can at least
start using our services?

Erik.





From anthony at ventimiglia.org  Sat Sep 13 02:20:20 2003
From: anthony at ventimiglia.org (Anthony Ventimiglia)
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:20:20 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Request for project hosting
Message-ID: <200309122220.23988.anthony@ventimiglia.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi, 

	My name is Anthony Ventimiglia, I am working on a library for
writing CGI programs in lisp, it's got a working name of "cl-cgi". So
far it's in it's early stages, but it is useable (for cmucl). I
haven't released it to the public yet, but I plan on putting the GNU
GPL copyright on it when I do. 

	I noticed that there was a project working on RFC2388, which
may integrate into this library quite well.

	I also noticed that the "clo" project seems to be the web-site
development. I think the site looks great, but it would be awfully
nice if there was a link to actually browse and search the hosted
projects. I was able to find the project sites through the ftp
directories. 
	
	Anyway without saying too much, I'd love to get involved with
working on the web-site if you are looking for any volunteers in that
area.

Thanks for your time.

Anthony
	

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From erik at nittin.net  Mon Sep 15 13:23:37 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 09:23:37 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Request for project hosting
In-Reply-To: <200309122220.23988.anthony@ventimiglia.org> (Anthony
	Ventimiglia's message of "Fri, 12 Sep 2003 22:20:20 -0400")
References: <200309122220.23988.anthony@ventimiglia.org>
Message-ID: <8765jub2xy.fsf@nittin.net>

Anthony Ventimiglia <anthony at ventimiglia.org> writes:

> 	My name is Anthony Ventimiglia, I am working on a library for writing
> CGI programs in lisp, it's got a working name of "cl-cgi". So far it's
> in it's early stages, but it is useable (for cmucl).

Out of curiosity, what does it actually do?

I'm in favour of accepting this project.  Others who think otherwise?

> I haven't released it to the public yet, but I plan on putting the GNU
> GPL copyright on it when I do.

You mention that you may want to integrate it with other projects later;
many of the projects use less restrictive licenses (such as the MIT, X11
or BSD versions) and you might find that integrating the two projects
may prove difficult with the GPL.  I'm not trying to discourage you from
using the GPL.  I just want to make sure you have considered this.

> I also noticed that the "clo" project seems to be the web-site
> development.

This is accurate.

> I think the site looks great, but it would be awfully nice if there
> was a link to actually browse and search the hosted projects.

I think our plan is to install CMUCL (done) and Portable AllegroServe
(well, nearly done, I'm getting some errors; Nikodemus did you get my
email about that?) and then use them to display dynamic content.

> Anyway without saying too much, I'd love to get involved with working
> on the web-site if you are looking for any volunteers in that area.

Sure, that'd be great.  Mario Mommer is the main web-guy, I think (we're
not too formal :-), so if you have any concrete ideas, post them to the
clo-devel list and he'll probably respond there.

Thanks!

Erik.



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Mon Sep 15 16:36:55 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Mon, 15 Sep 2003 18:36:55 +0200
Subject: [Admin] Request for project hosting
In-Reply-To: <8765jub2xy.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <200309122220.23988.anthony@ventimiglia.org>
	<8765jub2xy.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <fz8yoqnh3s.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Erik Enge <erik at nittin.net> writes:
> Anthony Ventimiglia <anthony at ventimiglia.org> writes:
> 
> > 	My name is Anthony Ventimiglia, I am working on a library for writing
> > CGI programs in lisp, it's got a working name of "cl-cgi". So far it's
> > in it's early stages, but it is useable (for cmucl).
> 
> Out of curiosity, what does it actually do?
> 
> I'm in favour of accepting this project.  Others who think otherwise?

I think it is ok, but I'd like to know too what it actually does...

> > Anyway without saying too much, I'd love to get involved with working
> > on the web-site if you are looking for any volunteers in that area.
> 
> Sure, that'd be great.  Mario Mommer is the main web-guy, I think (we're
> not too formal :-), so if you have any concrete ideas, post them to the
> clo-devel list and he'll probably respond there.

Exactly!

Regards,
        Mario.




From anthony at ventimiglia.org  Tue Sep 16 16:42:48 2003
From: anthony at ventimiglia.org (Anthony Ventimiglia)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 12:42:48 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Request for project hosting
In-Reply-To: <E19zIFT-0001j5-00@common-lisp.net>
References: <E19zIFT-0001j5-00@common-lisp.net>
Message-ID: <200309161242.49352.anthony@ventimiglia.org>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> Subject: Re: [Admin] Request for project hosting

> > Anthony Ventimiglia <anthony at ventimiglia.org> writes:
> > > 	My name is Anthony Ventimiglia, I am working on a library for writing
> > > CGI programs in lisp, it's got a working name of "cl-cgi". So far it's
> > > in it's early stages, but it is useable (for cmucl).
> >
> > Out of curiosity, what does it actually do?
> >
> > I'm in favour of accepting this project.  Others who think otherwise?
>
> I think it is ok, but I'd like to know too what it actually does...

I haven't seen my messages from yesterday show up, so I'll try
again. The CL-CGI library I initially sent the request for was mostly
a small package which would ease writing CGI programs. Basically it
set some variables according to the environment passed from the
server, and has a url decoder to decode HTTP post and get data.

Since submitting my initial request I have taken this small idea
further into what I am calling CLHP, the Common Lisp Hypertext
Preprocessor. Basically what this is is the ease of PHP with the joys
of Lisp. You can create dynamic content using lisp embedded in XML
processing instructions. 

Right now I have a working version which works with Apache, through a
lisp CGI gateway. But I plan on writing a Apache module. 

The CLHP name is really a working name right now, since XML is not
really just a Hypertext thing, this could also be used independently
of a HTTP server. 

I hope that's a good enough description, I'd really appreciate it if
you would agree to host this and be willing to enable the server to
run it.


Anthony

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From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Sep 16 21:07:47 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:07:47 +0200
Subject: [Admin] Request for project hosting
In-Reply-To: <200309161242.49352.anthony@ventimiglia.org>
References: <E19zIFT-0001j5-00@common-lisp.net>
	<200309161242.49352.anthony@ventimiglia.org>
Message-ID: <fzk788igrg.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Anthony Ventimiglia <anthony at ventimiglia.org> writes:
> I haven't seen my messages from yesterday show up, so I'll try
> again.

I didn't get anything. Any ideas as to what failed?

> The CL-CGI library I initially sent the request for was mostly
> a small package which would ease writing CGI programs. Basically it
> set some variables according to the environment passed from the
> server, and has a url decoder to decode HTTP post and get data.
> 
> Since submitting my initial request I have taken this small idea
> further into what I am calling CLHP, the Common Lisp Hypertext
> Preprocessor. Basically what this is is the ease of PHP with the joys
> of Lisp. You can create dynamic content using lisp embedded in XML
> processing instructions. 
> 
> Right now I have a working version which works with Apache, through a
> lisp CGI gateway. But I plan on writing a Apache module. 
> 
> The CLHP name is really a working name right now, since XML is not
> really just a Hypertext thing, this could also be used independently
> of a HTTP server. 
> 
> I hope that's a good enough description, I'd really appreciate it if
> you would agree to host this and be willing to enable the server to
> run it.

I think the project sounds good, and should be hosted.

Did I understand correctly that you would like to be able to change
the name afterwards?

Regarding running this on the server - I don't know. It certainly is a
posibility, although I am a bit hesitant on going down this road too
fast. Erik is the one who runs the box, so it is he who has the last
word, btw.

I think that it should have some minimal robustness before we change
to it, and should have some experience with it, but other than that, I
find the idea appealing.

Regards,
        Mario.




From erik at nittin.net  Tue Sep 16 21:16:36 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:16:36 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Request for project hosting
In-Reply-To: <fzk788igrg.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de> (Mario Mommer's
	message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:07:47 +0200")
References: <E19zIFT-0001j5-00@common-lisp.net>
	<200309161242.49352.anthony@ventimiglia.org>
	<fzk788igrg.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <87r82g77t7.fsf@nittin.net>

Mario Mommer <mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de> writes:

> I didn't get anything. Any ideas as to what failed?

He replied to me solely.  :-)

> I think the project sounds good, and should be hosted.

Me too.  Anthony, is "clhp" the name you want?

> Regarding running this on the server - I don't know. It certainly is a
> posibility, although I am a bit hesitant on going down this road too
> fast. Erik is the one who runs the box, so it is he who has the last
> word, btw.

Give me detailed instructions on what I need to do and I'll probably do
it.

Erik.



From root at common-lisp.net  Tue Sep 16 21:23:09 2003
From: root at common-lisp.net (root)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:23:09 -0400
Subject: [Admin] added ubf; owned by afuchs
Message-ID: <E19zNHx-0005Aj-00@common-lisp.net>

Add successful at 2003.09.16.17.23.



From erik at nittin.net  Tue Sep 16 21:27:45 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:27:45 -0400
Subject: [Admin] added ubf; owned by afuchs
In-Reply-To: <E19zNHx-0005Aj-00@common-lisp.net> (root@common-lisp.net's
	message of "Tue, 16 Sep 2003 17:23:09 -0400")
References: <E19zNHx-0005Aj-00@common-lisp.net>
Message-ID: <87ekyg77am.fsf@nittin.net>

root <root at common-lisp.net> writes:

> Add successful at 2003.09.16.17.23.

I decided to go ahead and add Andreas' project.  If we end up with a
namingconvention where his project's name is not appropriate we'll
rename (same goes for rfc2822 etc. I suppose).  At least Andreas can now
start hacking away as he pleases.  :-)

Erik.



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Sep 16 21:41:28 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 23:41:28 +0200
Subject: [Admin] added ubf; owned by afuchs
In-Reply-To: <87ekyg77am.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <E19zNHx-0005Aj-00@common-lisp.net> <87ekyg77am.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <fz7k48if7b.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Erik Enge <erik at nittin.net> writes:
> root <root at common-lisp.net> writes:
> 
> > Add successful at 2003.09.16.17.23.
> 
> I decided to go ahead and add Andreas' project.  If we end up with a
> namingconvention where his project's name is not appropriate we'll
> rename (same goes for rfc2822 etc. I suppose).  At least Andreas can now
> start hacking away as he pleases.  :-)

Cool!

...IMO name changes should be of course consulted first with the
owners...

Mario.




From erik-nittin at imeme.net  Wed Sep 17 03:55:48 2003
From: erik-nittin at imeme.net (erik-nittin at imeme.net)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 03:55:48 -0000 (GMT)
Subject: [Admin] added ubf; owned by afuchs
In-Reply-To: <fz7k48if7b.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
References: <E19zNHx-0005Aj-00@common-lisp.net> <87ekyg77am.fsf@nittin.net>
	<fz7k48if7b.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>
Message-ID: <1461.66.156.34.249.1063770948.squirrel@imeme.net>

> ...IMO name changes should be of course consulted first with the owners...

Absolutely.

Erik.





From root at common-lisp.net  Wed Sep 17 13:54:11 2003
From: root at common-lisp.net (root)
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:54:11 -0400
Subject: [Admin] added clhp; owned by aventimiglia
Message-ID: <E19zcl1-0002JE-00@common-lisp.net>

Add successful at 2003.09.17.09.54.



From bmastenb at indiana.edu  Fri Sep 19 21:38:40 2003
From: bmastenb at indiana.edu (Brian Mastenbrook)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:38:40 -0500
Subject: [Admin] Hosting for cl-menusystem
Message-ID: <A2515772-EAE9-11D7-B142-0003939CCEFE@indiana.edu>

Hello,

I'd like to request hosting for cl-menusystem, an interface for 
building menus in CL. You can read more about it at 
http://www.cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/software/cl-menusystem/ or 
http://www.cliki.net/cl-menusystem/ .

Project members:

Myself (Brian Mastenbrook - bmastenb at cs.indiana.edu)
Brian Rice - water at tunes.org
Kevin Rosenberg - kevin at rosenberg.net

The code is in the public domain.
--
Brian Mastenbrook
bmastenb at cs.indiana.edu
http://cs.indiana.edu/~bmastenb/




From erik at nittin.net  Fri Sep 19 22:08:18 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 18:08:18 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Hosting for cl-menusystem
In-Reply-To: <A2515772-EAE9-11D7-B142-0003939CCEFE@indiana.edu> (Brian
	Mastenbrook's message of "Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:38:40 -0500")
References: <A2515772-EAE9-11D7-B142-0003939CCEFE@indiana.edu>
Message-ID: <87he38whwt.fsf@nittin.net>

Brian Mastenbrook <bmastenb at indiana.edu> writes:

> I'd like to request hosting for cl-menusystem, an interface for
> building menus in CL.

Sounds good to me.  Others?

Erik.



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Sat Sep 20 21:34:09 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Sat, 20 Sep 2003 23:34:09 +0200
Subject: [Admin] Hosting for cl-menusystem
In-Reply-To: <87he38whwt.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <A2515772-EAE9-11D7-B142-0003939CCEFE@indiana.edu>
	<87he38whwt.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <fz65jngn5a.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Erik Enge <erik at nittin.net> writes:

> Brian Mastenbrook <bmastenb at indiana.edu> writes:
> 
> > I'd like to request hosting for cl-menusystem, an interface for
> > building menus in CL.
> 
> Sounds good to me.  Others?

It's 100% ok.




From nikodemus at random-state.net  Mon Sep 22 14:29:18 2003
From: nikodemus at random-state.net (Nikodemus Siivola)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:29:18 +0300
Subject: [Admin] cl-menusystem
Message-ID: <20030922142918.GC1418@random-state.net>

I say yes to this. ;)

Cheers,

 -- Nikodemus
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From root at common-lisp.net  Mon Sep 22 16:35:22 2003
From: root at common-lisp.net (root)
Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 12:35:22 -0400
Subject: [Admin] added cl-menusystem; owned by bmastenbrook
Message-ID: <E1A1Tek-0002Sd-00@common-lisp.net>

Add successful at 2003.09.22.12.35.



From hatchond at labri.fr  Tue Sep 30 12:52:39 2003
From: hatchond at labri.fr (Iban Hatchondo)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 14:52:39 +0200
Subject: [Admin] Creating a project: ECLIPSE
Message-ID: <3F797C97.7000707@labri.fr>

Hi

currently hosted on the unlambda.com machine, I would love to change my 
hosting place to yours for many reasons. The main one is that IMHO a 
common lisp project should be hosted at your place.

Ask me for any other question you may have the eclipse project.

Regards,
Iban.

Me             : Iban Hatchondo
members name   : Iban Hatchondo, Erik Endge, Christian Lynbech
project name   : eclipse
project license: GPL
description    : Eclipse is a window manager written entirely in Common 
Lisp. Started by a group of students of the 4th year CS program in 
Bordeaux, France, as part of their second-semester programming project. 
Currently the window manager is being maintained by one of those 
students, Iban Hatchondo, as well as several other Common Lisp programmers.




From erik at nittin.net  Tue Sep 30 12:56:36 2003
From: erik at nittin.net (Erik Enge)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 08:56:36 -0400
Subject: [Admin] Creating a project: ECLIPSE
In-Reply-To: <3F797C97.7000707@labri.fr> (Iban Hatchondo's message of "Tue,
	30 Sep 2003 14:52:39 +0200")
References: <3F797C97.7000707@labri.fr>
Message-ID: <87pthiqvsr.fsf@nittin.net>

Iban Hatchondo <hatchond at labri.fr> writes:

> currently hosted on the unlambda.com machine, I would love to change
> my hosting place to yours for many reasons.

I approve.  Others?

Erik.



From mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de  Tue Sep 30 13:58:14 2003
From: mommer at igpm.rwth-aachen.de (Mario Mommer)
Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 15:58:14 +0200
Subject: [Admin] Creating a project: ECLIPSE
In-Reply-To: <87pthiqvsr.fsf@nittin.net>
References: <3F797C97.7000707@labri.fr> <87pthiqvsr.fsf@nittin.net>
Message-ID: <fzpthiwf7t.fsf@cupid.igpm.rwth-aachen.de>

Erik Enge <erik at nittin.net> writes:
> Iban Hatchondo <hatchond at labri.fr> writes:
> 
> > currently hosted on the unlambda.com machine, I would love to change
> > my hosting place to yours for many reasons.
> 
> I approve.  Others?

I approve too :-)

Regards,
        Mario.